:wrong: Soviet car reviews

[max225]

[max225]

This is going to be a semi long one... I spent about 400 miles in a X5E45.

I think I will focus most of this on the powertrain because that's where most of the interest lies for me.
First things first… some background.
This thing has the B58I6 + a 24kw battery so it is essentially a “Plug in Hybrid” but the reality is a bit different. Only 17KW are available… because of some sort of US regulation.
Fuel consumption:
2.1Miles per KW for EV so about ~34 miles on all EV (teslas get 3+ for a comparable size vehicle)
22mpg on Gas only.
28mpg in hybrid mode.
The engine requires 89+ so it won’t run on donkey piss.
So how does it all work? Actually quite well… when it comes to smoothness and performance but at the cost of fuel efficiency. This is no better in MPGs than the gas model as expected… even given all the regen etc…

3 Main modes (all user selectable)
1. Full EV (30% power)
2. Hybrid Just like a prius
3. Full gasoline mode

EV only mode is about 30% of overall power, so it’s enough to “commute” but gasoline kicks in when you floor it etc.
Also this thing doesn’t fast charge. SO you can’t charge it anywhere but overnight… which takes about 4-8hrs.
So the only USE case I think of is:
1. You take a lot of road trips where you need the engine
2. You need to have at home/work charging
3. Commuting takes less than 30 miles per day and you’re willing to stay at under 30% power output.
All of the above needs to happen otherwise a proper EV or a proper gasoline vehicle makes more sense.
I cringe at the complexity of this thing… It literally has both powerplants with all of the downsides of each… The vehicle is heavy AF, it has a gasoline flap and a charge flap… it has dead steering, it has non sporty brakes, it has very limited regen + it doesn’t allow 1 pedal driving.

So bizzare… overall I’d say I see NO point in this thing over a X3… in gasoline version. Because that thing gets better MPGs, is 30k cheaper and has nearly the same amount of space. Hard pass from me.

This thing does do a couple things really well...
1. Supremely quiet
2. Best hybrid smoothness I experienced
3. This thing is fast AF

[ChrisoftheNorth]

If it matters, it's not REALLY two different powertrains. ZF developed a version of the 8-speed trans that allows almost plug and play hybrid capability. Over simplifying, but it effectively replaces the torque converter with an electric motor, hence the reduced output in EV mode. Add in some batteries for it, tune for drivability, and there's a PHEV. Anything RWD that uses the ZF transmission can get a PHEV now, which is what Stellanus is doing with the JL and WL, BMW, LR, etc, etc all doing the same.

It's an extremely half-assed approach, and the results certainly show that. It's really only a compliance play because the .gov gives bonus crebitz for PHEV tech, and it helps thirsty vehicles look less so. So no customer benefit, but the transmission itself is 5x the cost of the non-electrified one PLUS the batteries, results in break even pricing of $9k (at least that's what it was 2 years ago when I was working on the WL PHEV biz case, it's probable double that now) FOR SOMETHING WITH NO CUSTOMER BENEFIT.

When the ICE engine is working WITH the electric motor on a full charge, it can accelerate quite impressively. There were rumors in the basement at Stellanus that a powertrain engineer managed a 4-wheel burnout in a JL PHEV prototype on a full charge. But that benefit depletes with the battery level, so once it's below 80%, the electric motor isn't contributing much to acceleration performance.

[max225]

If it matters, it's not REALLY two different powertrains. ZF developed a version of the 8-speed trans that allows almost plug and play hybrid capability. Over simplifying, but it effectively replaces the torque converter with an electric motor, hence the reduced output in EV mode. Add in some batteries for it, tune for drivability, and there's a PHEV. Anything RWD that uses the ZF transmission can get a PHEV now, which is what Stellanus is doing with the JL and WL, BMW, LR, etc, etc all doing the same.

It's an extremely half-assed approach, and the results certainly show that. It's really only a compliance play because the .gov gives bonus crebitz for PHEV tech, and it helps thirsty vehicles look less so. So no customer benefit, but the transmission itself is 5x the cost of the non-electrified one PLUS the batteries, results in break even pricing of $9k (at least that's what it was 2 years ago when I was working on the WL PHEV biz case, it's probable double that now) FOR SOMETHING WITH NO CUSTOMER BENEFIT.

When the ICE engine is working WITH the electric motor on a full charge, it can accelerate quite impressively. There were rumors in the basement at Stellanus that a powertrain engineer managed a 4-wheel burnout in a JL PHEV prototype on a full charge. But that benefit depletes with the battery level, so once it's below 80%, the electric motor isn't contributing much to acceleration performance.

I picked up the car at 0% charge... and used it in mostly 0% charge... then used it at 100% after charging nearly overnight. I sensed NO difference in DD driving. Other than being able to go full EV. I think it constnatly keeps a reserve for power boost in the BMW application hence the whole 17kw usable vs 24kw total cap.

I have no history with Stellantis products that are like this... I wouldn't be surprised if they are quite different. Outside of the trans... but I could be

[ChrisoftheNorth]

If it matters, it's not REALLY two different powertrains. ZF developed a version of the 8-speed trans that allows almost plug and play hybrid capability. Over simplifying, but it effectively replaces the torque converter with an electric motor, hence the reduced output in EV mode. Add in some batteries for it, tune for drivability, and there's a PHEV. Anything RWD that uses the ZF transmission can get a PHEV now, which is what Stellanus is doing with the JL and WL, BMW, LR, etc, etc all doing the same.

It's an extremely half-assed approach, and the results certainly show that. It's really only a compliance play because the .gov gives bonus crebitz for PHEV tech, and it helps thirsty vehicles look less so. So no customer benefit, but the transmission itself is 5x the cost of the non-electrified one PLUS the batteries, results in break even pricing of $9k (at least that's what it was 2 years ago when I was working on the WL PHEV biz case, it's probable double that now) FOR SOMETHING WITH NO CUSTOMER BENEFIT.

When the ICE engine is working WITH the electric motor on a full charge, it can accelerate quite impressively. There were rumors in the basement at Stellanus that a powertrain engineer managed a 4-wheel burnout in a JL PHEV prototype on a full charge. But that benefit depletes with the battery level, so once it's below 80%, the electric motor isn't contributing much to acceleration performance.

I picked up the car at 0% charge... and used it in mostly 0% charge... then used it at 100% after charging nearly overnight. I sensed NO difference in DD driving. Other than being able to go full EV. I think it constnatly keeps a reserve for power boost in the BMW application hence the whole 17kw usable vs 24kw total cap.

I have no history with Stellantis products that are like this... I wouldn't be surprised if they are quite different. Outside of the trans... but I could be

Oh interesting. Makes sense that the acceleration drop was just Stellanus sucking.

[ChrisoftheNorth]

I mean, the only thing an OEM is doing is tuning the powertrain after finding a place to stuff batteries. I imagine BMW would devote quite a bit of effort to getting it right. Stellanus is just trying to ram products out to keep the .gov from fining them into oblivion.

[golftdibrad1]

This is going to be a semi long one... I spent about 400 miles in a X5E45.

I think I will focus most of this on the powertrain because that's where most of the interest lies for me.
First things first… some background.
This thing has the B58I6 + a 24kw battery so it is essentially a “Plug in Hybrid” but the reality is a bit different. Only 17KW are available… because of some sort of US regulation.
Fuel consumption:
2.1KW per mile for EV so about ~34 miles on all EV (teslas get 3+ for a comparable size vehicle)
22mpg on Gas only.
28mpg in hybrid mode.
The engine requires 89+ so it won’t run on donkey piss.
So how does it all work? Actually quite well… when it comes to smoothness and performance but at the cost of fuel efficiency. This is no better in MPGs than the gas model as expected… even given all the regen etc…

3 Main modes (all user selectable)
1. Full EV (30% power)
2. Hybrid Just like a prius
3. Full gasoline mode

EV only mode is about 30% of overall power, so it’s enough to “commute” but gasoline kicks in when you floor it etc.
Also this thing doesn’t fast charge. SO you can’t charge it anywhere but overnight… which takes about 4-8hrs.
So the only USE case I think of is:
1. You take a lot of road trips where you need the engine
2. You need to have at home/work charging
3. Commuting takes less than 30 miles per day and you’re willing to stay at under 30% power output.
All of the above needs to happen otherwise a proper EV or a proper gasoline vehicle makes more sense.
I cringe at the complexity of this thing… It literally has both powerplants with all of the downsides of each… The vehicle is heavy AF, it has a gasoline flap and a charge flap… it has dead steering, it has non sporty brakes, it has very limited regen + it doesn’t allow 1 pedal driving.

So bizzare… overall I’d say I see NO point in this thing over a X3… in gasoline version. Because that thing gets better MPGs, is 30k cheaper and has nearly the same amount of space. Hard pass from me.

This thing does do a couple things really well...
1. Supremely quiet
2. Best hybrid smoothness I experienced
3. This thing is fast AF

Nice review. I'll continue to disagree on the 'dual powertrain' gripe. I think this one needs just a touch more ev range to be useful.

I think it constnatly keeps a reserve for power boost in the BMW application hence the whole 17kw usable vs 24kw total cap.

possible. also possible that its for EPA city cycle rating for the same. Also might be marketing, because to extend the life of batteries you can't 'use' all their capacity. Which just means the capacity is a number picked based on lots of factors, and the marketing dept thinks 24 will sell better than 17 and use that. Chebby did this with the volt.

[max225]

I picked up the car at 0% charge... and used it in mostly 0% charge... then used it at 100% after charging nearly overnight. I sensed NO difference in DD driving. Other than being able to go full EV. I think it constnatly keeps a reserve for power boost in the BMW application hence the whole 17kw usable vs 24kw total cap.

I have no history with Stellantis products that are like this... I wouldn't be surprised if they are quite different. Outside of the trans... but I could be

Oh interesting. Makes sense that the acceleration drop was just Stellanus sucking.

Yea I am not 100% sure on how it all works. This was the most complex powertrain by far out of any vehicle I have ever driven. I am very tech savvy and have tons of experience in EVs etc... and it took me hours to figure it all out... just figuring out consumption was difficult AF. This thing goes great on all Engine/Hybrid or EV. Its literally 3 vehicles in 1... kind of nuts. And it is all user selectible. And I believe the engine is also capable of chargining/maintaining the battery.

[ChrisoftheNorth]

Oh interesting. Makes sense that the acceleration drop was just Stellanus sucking.

Yea I am not 100% sure on how it all works. This was the most complex powertrain by far out of any vehicle I have ever driven. I am very tech savvy and have tons of experience in EVs etc... and it took me hours to figure it all out... just figuring out consumption was difficult AF. This thing goes great on all Engine/Hybrid or EV. Its literally 3 vehicles in 1... kind of nuts. And it is all user selectible. And I believe the engine is also capable of chargining/maintaining the battery.

Well, consumption is probably hard to find on purpose because...it's not that great. I've also wondered how people would take to all the user selectability with the powertrain...like does anyone actually want to mess with all that stuff? Stellanus products can't charge the batteries, but you can force ICE mode to save battery charge for later. I think this has more to do with european needs (zero emissions in cities) than anything else, but there's a bunch of random stuff like that that's

[max225]

Yea I am not 100% sure on how it all works. This was the most complex powertrain by far out of any vehicle I have ever driven. I am very tech savvy and have tons of experience in EVs etc... and it took me hours to figure it all out... just figuring out consumption was difficult AF. This thing goes great on all Engine/Hybrid or EV. Its literally 3 vehicles in 1... kind of nuts. And it is all user selectible. And I believe the engine is also capable of chargining/maintaining the battery.

Well, consumption is probably hard to find on purpose because...it's not that great. I've also wondered how people would take to all the user selectability with the powertrain...like does anyone actually want to mess with all that stuff? Stellanus products can't charge the batteries, but you can force ICE mode to save battery charge for later. I think this has more to do with european needs (zero emissions in cities) than anything else, but there's a bunch of random stuff like that that's

I am trying to think who the target customer is for this thing... It was difficult to wrap my head around.
This thing was immensely complex to operate compared to say a tesla... and you really have to love the BMW brand for it as well. The I6 still makes vroom vroom noises and you can still drive like a cuck if you're trying to sneak out at night to visit your lover or whatever. But why pay extra for all that ?

I suppose the only direct competitor I can think of is the Model Y and I guess the JGC 4XE? The model Y is far worse inside, yet has better tech, requires way less maintenance and costs 1/4 to operate over the bmw.....

The Jeep likely costs less to operate but I doubt it'll ride anywhere near as nice as the BMW and it will likely not have the same level of interior materials... either way... it all just seems super half assed.

The range should be around 100 miles to make it useable and it needs to have fast charging, otherwise what is the frigging point? overall I think EVs in general make more sense. Even though NY had like 1/100s of the teslas of cali, I was able to find superchargers in all of the major places that were EMPTY, and plenty of free charging as well. It takes time but you can also plan around it...

[ChrisoftheNorth]

Well, consumption is probably hard to find on purpose because...it's not that great. I've also wondered how people would take to all the user selectability with the powertrain...like does anyone actually want to mess with all that stuff? Stellanus products can't charge the batteries, but you can force ICE mode to save battery charge for later. I think this has more to do with european needs (zero emissions in cities) than anything else, but there's a bunch of random stuff like that that's

I am trying to think who the target customer is for this thing... It was difficult to wrap my head around.
This thing was immensely complex to operate compared to say a tesla... and you really have to love the BMW brand for it as well. The I6 still makes vroom vroom noises and you can still drive like a cuck if you're trying to sneak out at night to visit your lover or whatever. But why pay extra for all that ?

I suppose the only direct competitor I can think of is the Model Y and I guess the JGC 4XE? The model Y is far worse inside, yet has better tech, requires way less maintenance and costs 1/4 to operate over the bmw.....

The Jeep likely costs less to operate but I doubt it'll ride anywhere near as nice as the BMW and it will likely not have the same level of interior materials... either way... it all just seems super half assed.

The range should be around 100 miles to make it useable and it needs to have fast charging, otherwise what is the frigging point? overall I think EVs in general make more sense. Even though NY had like 1/100s of the teslas of cali, I was able to find superchargers in all of the major places that were EMPTY, and plenty of free charging as well. It takes time but you can also plan around it...

There is no target market. It's a 100% .gov driven compliance vehicle. Some OEMs are trying to make them better than others.

I suspect the only people that buy them are those that have more money than brains and just want "the best" or "most expensive" or whatever.

[max225]

So I have a review here...
2021 Nissan Altima SR. for 400 miles.
It was a very decent experience which was really pleasantly surprising.
+This car is very large inside, seats 4 6'6" people easy
+LED lights are nice
+Ergonomics are super good, everything is easy to find
+CVT+2.5 are perfectly adequate and quiet
+The features for the price point were epic. (partial leather, auto lights, leds, keyless, carplay)
+REALLY quiet at freeway speeds
+suspension absorbs shit roads very well even on the 19" wheels

-Safety tech was weird... it prevents you from "bumping" into other cars when backing up... it literally locked up the front wheels 2x on me when I was 6" away from the other car
- two "Ghost braking" events...
- 26 mpg average was ... eh... but I suppose expected
- car already has peeling paint... but i think it is mostly due to sandpaper washes
- bad turning radius

Overall I would highly recommend this car as a no frills point a to point b vehicle. I know the shit stigma with it... but honestly this was a far better vehicle than the camry I had before. It is quieter, more refined and has a better trans, continuously vaginal and all. 3/7 overall I'd say... 4.5/7 for a mobile.

[CaleDeRoo]

How were the seats? I've also recommended this generation Altima to people who just need car with space.

[max225]

How were the seats? I've also recommended this generation Altima to people who just need car with space.

Very comfortable.

[max225]

[CaleDeRoo]

Is that Hawaii again?

[max225]

Is that Hawaii again?

That is Hawaii yep

[CaleDeRoo]

Is that Hawaii again?

That is Hawaii yep

Any tips for a first timer? My brother was texting me last night he's thinking about booking a trip within the next couple months. He does alright for a single 24 y/o but he's frugal.

[Johnny_P]

So I have a review here...
2021 Nissan Altima SR. for 400 miles.
It was a very decent experience which was really pleasantly surprising.
+This car is very large inside, seats 4 6'6" people easy
+LED lights are nice
+Ergonomics are super good, everything is easy to find
+CVT+2.5 are perfectly adequate and quiet
+The features for the price point were epic. (partial leather, auto lights, leds, keyless, carplay)
+REALLY quiet at freeway speeds
+suspension absorbs shit roads very well even on the 19" wheels

-Safety tech was weird... it prevents you from "bumping" into other cars when backing up... it literally locked up the front wheels 2x on me when I was 6" away from the other car
- two "Ghost braking" events...
- 26 mpg average was ... eh... but I suppose expected
- car already has peeling paint... but i think it is mostly due to sandpaper washes
- bad turning radius

Overall I would highly recommend this car as a no frills point a to point b vehicle. I know the shit stigma with it... but honestly this was a far better vehicle than the camry I had before. It is quieter, more refined and has a better trans, continuously vaginal and all. 3/7 overall I'd say... 4.5/7 for a mobile.

I think these look great inside and out. They get nearly 40 mpg highway real world. I rented a prior gen and it was awful with gear ratio hunting but I think more recent Nissan CVTs have gotten a lot better.

These are IMO a better pick than Camrys and accords with base configs. I’d give the edge to a toyota hybrid though.

[max225]

Actually had a brand new hybrid Camry on the way back that was fully loaded. I think that version fixes most of my gripes with the LE I had … but… it had a bit of road noise … and rougher ride compared to the Altima.

I think it’s like 7-8k more

[D Griff]

Huh, I have avoided Nissan products like the plague at the rental counter, I will give them a second look moving forward. Nice review!

I actually find the current gen Camry to be kind of a go-to when there's nothing interesting to rent or only sedans, , CUVs, and minivans.

I've had Chevy, VW, slanty H/fake Lexus (Kia) sedans and all are worse than Camry IMO. The Chevy and VW are blandsville from the get-go but the Hyundai/Kia are most disappointing because they actually look really good and then are just sort of blah once you're in them.

[Johnny_P]

Huh, I have avoided Nissan products like the plague at the rental counter, I will give them a second look moving forward. Nice review!

I actually find the current gen Camry to be kind of a go-to when there's nothing interesting to rent or only sedans, , CUVs, and minivans.

I've had Chevy, VW, slanty H/fake Lexus (Kia) sedans and all are worse than Camry IMO. The Chevy and VW are blandsville from the get-go but the Hyundai/Kia are most disappointing because they actually look really good and then are just sort of blah once you're in them.

The sonata seems kind of nice inside, no? Yeah Chevy Malibu might be the worst new car I’ve ever rented. Infotainment was ok but everything else was awful. I was pretty disappointed they gave me that instead of an Altima last year. I should have spoken up. That 1.5?t and CVT combo was horrific.

[Johnny_P]

Actually had a brand new hybrid Camry on the way back that was fully loaded. I think that version fixes most of my gripes with the LE I had … but… it had a bit of road noise … and rougher ride compared to the Altima.

I think it’s like 7-8k more

Yeah mpg alone won’t pay off. I think the hybrids drive a lot nicer.

[MexicanYarisTK]

So I have a review here...
2021 Nissan Altima SR. for 400 miles.
It was a very decent experience which was really pleasantly surprising.
+This car is very large inside, seats 4 6'6" people easy
+LED lights are nice
+Ergonomics are super good, everything is easy to find
+CVT+2.5 are perfectly adequate and quiet
+The features for the price point were epic. (partial leather, auto lights, leds, keyless, carplay)
+REALLY quiet at freeway speeds
+suspension absorbs shit roads very well even on the 19" wheels

-Safety tech was weird... it prevents you from "bumping" into other cars when backing up... it literally locked up the front wheels 2x on me when I was 6" away from the other car
- two "Ghost braking" events...
- 26 mpg average was ... eh... but I suppose expected
- car already has peeling paint... but i think it is mostly due to sandpaper washes
- bad turning radius

Overall I would highly recommend this car as a no frills point a to point b vehicle. I know the shit stigma with it... but honestly this was a far better vehicle than the camry I had before. It is quieter, more refined and has a better trans, continuously vaginal and all. 3/7 overall I'd say... 4.5/7 for a mobile.

I think these look great inside and out. They get nearly 40 mpg highway real world. I rented a prior gen and it was awful with gear ratio hunting but I think more recent Nissan CVTs have gotten a lot better.

These are IMO a better pick than Camrys and accords with base configs. I’d give the edge to a toyota hybrid though.

After renting 2015 altima vs a recent rogue, the newer cvt is compared to last one.

[MexicanYarisTK]

Huh, I have avoided Nissan products like the plague at the rental counter, I will give them a second look moving forward. Nice review!

I actually find the current gen Camry to be kind of a go-to when there's nothing interesting to rent or only sedans, , CUVs, and minivans.

I've had Chevy, VW, slanty H/fake Lexus (Kia) sedans and all are worse than Camry IMO. The Chevy and VW are blandsville from the get-go but the Hyundai/Kia are most disappointing because they actually look really good and then are just sort of blah once you're in them.

The sonata seems kind of nice inside, no? Yeah Chevy Malibu might be the worst new car I’ve ever rented. Infotainment was ok but everything else was awful. I was pretty disappointed they gave me that instead of an Altima last year. I should have spoken up. That 1.5?t and CVT combo was horrific.

That is news to Malibu that the Malibu would join the camp. the 1.5T cvt on the accord was actually pretty decent when I test drove it before I got my 2.slow.