Car Talk 2: Un-American Motor Company.

[troyguitar]

Guy who only understands driving in a straight line doesn't understand why anyone would change suspension!

This and other breaking news coming up tonight at 11...

Makes sense here if you are constantly up at the Ring.

Current M cars exceed 99% of all driver's capability. SO yea modding the suspension in reality makes little sense. Makes for great conversation but the basic car probably is not being challenged by the drivers buying them. The article I posted from Road and Track about the freedom of driving here vs the US was written by an Indy Car driver. He had an M3 for 2 weeks and was more than impressed with the roads and importantly the car. It was actually in the element/system it was designed for. He didnt say shite about a capability it lacked but did say it got the job more than done in the mountain passes and the Autobahn. Again the car as designed does need much help. It might for the type of tracking you do and that is understandable. Perhaps make that judgement after driving it.

A base Yaris exceeds 99% of all drivers' capabilities. So what? That has nothing to do with whether the car can be improved.

[wap]

Yea I am not even one of the guys who is deep into missing but I’ve since wrote it off. Lots of problems for little solutions on day-to-day driving.

Missing?

[troyguitar]

I seriously DO NOT UNDERSTAND why anyone would mod the suspension on an M3?

Someone in fact did say this...

I'll help you to understand: The car can be made to handle better with MODZZZ. Can you not understand that either?

[Davestr]

Makes sense here if you are constantly up at the Ring.

Current M cars exceed 99% of all driver's capability. SO yea modding the suspension in reality makes little sense. Makes for great conversation but the basic car probably is not being challenged by the drivers buying them. The article I posted from Road and Track about the freedom of driving here vs the US was written by an Indy Car driver. He had an M3 for 2 weeks and was more than impressed with the roads and importantly the car. It was actually in the element/system it was designed for. He didnt say shite about a capability it lacked but did say it got the job more than done in the mountain passes and the Autobahn. Again the car as designed does need much help. It might for the type of tracking you do and that is understandable. Perhaps make that judgement after driving it.

A base Yaris exceeds 99% of all drivers' capabilities. So what? That has nothing to do with whether the car can be improved.

That's subjective and subject to the use intended. No one is arguing whether there are not ways to improve the car. Most never seek out the improvements required or do the testing on their own car to actually document an improvement was made. A car pulling almost 1G good braking capability and does 300kmph seems to have most bases covered.

[Davestr]

Yea I am not even one of the guys who is deep into missing but I’ve since wrote it off. Lots of problems for little solutions on day-to-day driving.

Missing?

A Scirocco in your garage!!

[wap]

Missing?

Modding, I think.

Fucking and their autocorrectamatrons.

[wap]

Missing?

A Scirocco in your garage!!

[D Griff]

Why not just buy a couple of C5s?

The C5 ain't cool 'round these parts anymore, brah. Plastic shitbox.

[Desertbreh]

I already trolled the F80 forum for that... saw it... He is asking for $6k up front... He wants $1800 to subsidize his initial down. Which I'd like to negotiate down quite a bit. Once I get closer to my turn in date I will be shooting offers out. However, I am not sure what would happen due to the whole across states issue. Maybe that would make lease assumptions more complicated.

I am still shocked to see how many 's are modding M3s, lowering them, fugly wheels, wraps etc. And then unloading the lease... like

+1 on the amazeballs of these owners modding the funk out of a rental M3 and then deciding to unload it......I have a suspicion they will owe BMW if they dont. Mods are useless. Never again will I mod. They do not make the car better overall. You will not stop the depreciation and in fact might make it sale or turn-in proof if you do. Laughable. But all the cool kids is doing it, so YO what up.

I don't count dampers/sways and springs as mods. But I'm not voiding a powertrain warranty.

[Desertbreh]

Specifically, my GAYti with stock suspension was a golf with a tiny turbro and BROWHEELS. With DG springs, Bilstein Dampers, and Hotchkis sways it is a car I still miss today. Night and day.

I am on the Troy suspension bandwagon all day.

[max225]

Specifically, my GAYti with stock suspension was a golf with a tiny turbro and BROWHEELS. With DG springs, Bilstein Dampers, and Hotchkis sways it is a car I still miss today. Night and day.

I am on the Troy suspension bandwagon all day.

24k GTI <<<>>>> 65K M3

[troyguitar]

Specifically, my GAYti with stock suspension was a golf with a tiny turbro and BROWHEELS. With DG springs, Bilstein Dampers, and Hotchkis sways it is a car I still miss today. Night and day.

I am on the Troy suspension bandwagon all day.

24k GTI <<<>>>> 65K M3

Not true. Both are pretty well sorted from the factory but with a lot of room for improvement if you're willing to sacrifice tire wear.

[max225]

24k GTI <<<>>>> 65K M3

Not true. Both are pretty well sorted from the factory but with a lot of room for improvement if you're willing to sacrifice tire wear.

There is always a sacrifice. Which is why you pay the big bucks to have Aryan engineers work them out for you.

[4zilch]

[troyguitar]

Not true. Both are pretty well sorted from the factory but with a lot of room for improvement if you're willing to sacrifice tire wear.

There is always a sacrifice. Which is why you pay the big bucks to have Aryan engineers work them out for you.

Even then... anything short of a GT3 RS continues to be extremely compromised. Even those come with a compromised alignment from the factory, but at least have hardware which allows enough adjustment to get close to an ideal setup without changing parts. An M3 is not even in that ballpark - this is part that you don't seem to understand. An M3 ideally would have 12+ inch wide front wheels and 3+ degrees of negative camber up front to be "perfect" from the factory. It has, what, 10's at best with maybe -1.5 degrees?

[max225]

There is always a sacrifice. Which is why you pay the big bucks to have Aryan engineers work them out for you.

Even then... anything short of a GT3 RS continues to be extremely compromised. Even those come with a compromised alignment from the factory, but at least have hardware which allows enough adjustment to get close to an ideal setup without changing parts. An M3 is not even in that ballpark - this is part that you don't seem to understand. An M3 ideally would have 12+ inch wide front wheels and 3+ degrees of negative camber up front to be "perfect" from the factory. It has, what, 10's at best with maybe -1.5 degrees?

Compromised for what? Rolling around with camber and 12" wide front wheels in a street car ? Why? There are other dynamics that will get compromised in the process.

These are not fucking race cars why don't you understand that part? Some ppl don't give a rat's ass about a track. They want a nice quick daily for on ramps.

[troyguitar]

Maybe some people want a nice car that can also go around corners?

You made the absolute statement here, not me. You can't understand why anyone would ever change anything on an M3 suspension for any reason, I can. I'm just trying to share one possible reason for you...

Why is your way the only possible way that anyone could ever think about this?

[rockchops]

Nothing a $5 \\W logo from eBay can't fix

[max225]

Maybe some people want a nice car that can also go around corners?

You made the absolute statement here, not me. You can't understand why anyone would ever change anything on an M3 suspension for any reason, I can. I'm just trying to share one possible reason for you...

Why is your way the only possible way that anyone could ever think about this?

You're once again taking shit out of context. There are obviously ways to make it handle EVEN BETTER. Hell BMW did it with the GTS. That's not the point ... the point was me giving a link which you chose to ignore where a forum bro modded a lease by adding ugly giant ramz and lowering springs.

[4zilch]

is best.

[Johnny_P]

There is always a sacrifice. Which is why you pay the big bucks to have Aryan engineers work them out for you.

Even then... anything short of a GT3 RS continues to be extremely compromised. Even those come with a compromised alignment from the factory, but at least have hardware which allows enough adjustment to get close to an ideal setup without changing parts. An M3 is not even in that ballpark - this is part that you don't seem to understand. An M3 ideally would have 12+ inch wide front wheels and 3+ degrees of negative camber up front to be "perfect" from the factory. It has, what, 10's at best with maybe -1.5 degrees?

Ideally for what
The M3 is the ultimate daily driver machine. It's not supposed to be kartvader approved.

[Davestr]

Specifically, my GAYti with stock suspension was a golf with a tiny turbro and BROWHEELS. With DG springs, Bilstein Dampers, and Hotchkis sways it is a car I still miss today. Night and day.

I am on the Troy suspension bandwagon all day.

Its always personal as 'feel' matters as much as any verifiable performance enhancement.

[Davestr]

Specifically, my GAYti with stock suspension was a golf with a tiny turbro and BROWHEELS. With DG springs, Bilstein Dampers, and Hotchkis sways it is a car I still miss today. Night and day.

I am on the Troy suspension bandwagon all day.

24k GTI <<<>>>> 65K M3

Yo like, GO APR, ya know!!

[Davestr]

is best.

[troyguitar]

Even then... anything short of a GT3 RS continues to be extremely compromised. Even those come with a compromised alignment from the factory, but at least have hardware which allows enough adjustment to get close to an ideal setup without changing parts. An M3 is not even in that ballpark - this is part that you don't seem to understand. An M3 ideally would have 12+ inch wide front wheels and 3+ degrees of negative camber up front to be "perfect" from the factory. It has, what, 10's at best with maybe -1.5 degrees?

Ideally for what
The M3 is the ultimate daily driver machine. It's not supposed to be kartvader approved.

Ideal for the owner's preferences?

Max's claim is that the M3 is perfect for every owner, thus he cannot understand why anyone would ever change anything on one...

How am I the bad guy again? He didn't say that he can't understand why this one bro stanced out his M3, he said that he can't understand why anyone would ever change an M3 suspension.

News flash: Not everyone likes the same things as you, Max!