Jeeponomics 101: Eternal tirekicking for the gutless Jeep

[max225]

I’m no

To “afford” something over $40k I’d need to stretch pay for 84 months and wipe out too much cash.

Not worth it. Especially with my career in the shitter right now.

I financed both trucks. Traded the first in for nearly what I bought it for and just threw $3k down on the 2nd and financed for 72 but I’ve been making payments to pay it off in 48-60 months. However, should shit hit the fan, I can drop back to my minimum payment of $435/mo and be ok.

Do I want a new Jeep? Absolutely. Do I want to make my minimum payment more than $550/mo? Absolutely not. Same goes for a ZR2. I want one of those more than a new Jeep. But it just isn’t something that fits into the budget.

Payments? you clearly can't afford any of this, breh.

What a moran.

Only extra $100 a month . One less steak dinner

[ChrisoftheNorth]

True, but the ride in 2500 series trucks is TERRIBAD. I would never do it. Regular Ram 1500 has a 12,750 lb towing capacity or 2,300 lb payload.

The 2017 2500 HD High country I drove with the diesel actually rode much better than the 2500 HDI drove in 2009ish. I had a 2005 1500 that rode so soft it was terrible, but the 2500 was like a flatbed truck. The new ones are much better for sure.

There's really been a nice bump in refinement of the HD trucks.

Totally understand the desire for comprehending future use. Pretty wise if you can fully commit to a "forever" truck.

Just saying...Midsize truck to JL...the Midsize truck may still have some ride and comfort benefits.

[max225]

Coils aren't great for towing. Poor payload capacity.

You'd need a 2500 HD or better to tow a 5th wheel, really.

True, but the ride in 2500 series trucks is TERRIBAD. I would never do it. Regular Ram 1500 has a 12,750 lb towing capacity or 2,300 lb payload.

Yes but only on the contractor spec. My buddy’s ecodiesel barely has 1000lbs payload. I think around 985. He constantly overloads it and we talked about upping the rear springs to a higher spring rate.

[max225]

The only thing that would make that ox cart better is a tractor motor and a wing.

They should bring back the four-oh
That's an actual tractor motor doe.

I'm actually rather upset that the steering and suspension isn't better. Initial reports were very positive from Doug Demuro and others that the suspension and steering is actually worthy of a road going car. But it sounds like it's just a minor update to the floaty wobbly suspension on the JK. The steering there's no excuse for, since I'm sure it's electric now, and that's all down to tuning.

No it feels really similar to a JK. But then again why wouldn’t it ?! As I mentioned in my very first posts about it.

Also the 4.0 is not great, it is a terrible engine by modern standards. It doesn’t rev at all sounds bad and has little power. The 3.6 is better in every way.
Straight axles are terrible for “road feel” that goes without saying also the suspension uses pitman arms etc

[ChrisoftheNorth]

They should bring back the four-oh
That's an actual tractor motor doe.

I'm actually rather upset that the steering and suspension isn't better. Initial reports were very positive from Doug Demuro and others that the suspension and steering is actually worthy of a road going car. But it sounds like it's just a minor update to the floaty wobbly suspension on the JK. The steering there's no excuse for, since I'm sure it's electric now, and that's all down to tuning.

No it feels really similar to a JK. But then again why wouldn’t it ?! As I mentioned in my very first posts about it.

Also the 4.0 is not great, it is a terrible engine by modern standards. It doesn’t rev at all sounds bad and has little power. The 3.6 is better in every way.
Straight axles are terrible for “road feel” that goes without saying also the suspension uses pitman arms etc

[max225]

Only extra $100 a month . One less steak dinner

TBH I need to make a serious reduction in eating out. January was a big spend.

But I'm talking minimum payment. I may be paying over $500/mo now, but I like to have a fallback minimum in case I need to press the red button.

Yep that’s how much these things cost. Plus fuel and insurance you’re easily at 1k a month if you drive a bit

[Apex]

Yep that’s how much these things cost. Plus fuel and insurance you’re easily at 1k a month if you drive a bit

Bingo.

In this world where things become increasingly unaffordable, financing possessions is perfectly reasonable as long as the rates are still good and you stay ahead of the depreciation curve. I have a 2.89% loan for 72 plus I got $500 back from Nissan for doing so. It ain't bad.

The only reason I want a ZR2 or Rubicon is because I'm bored with what I have. I have no issues with my vehicles now.

That ever-present itch needs to get scratched every now and then.

[max225]

Yep that’s how much these things cost. Plus fuel and insurance you’re easily at 1k a month if you drive a bit

Bingo.

In this world where things become increasingly unaffordable, financing possessions is perfectly reasonable as long as the rates are still good and you stay ahead of the depreciation curve. I have a 2.89% loan for 72 plus I got $500 back from Nissan for doing so. It ain't bad.

The only reason I want a ZR2 or Rubicon is because I'm bored with what I have. I have no issues with my vehicles now.

I think your truck actually rides better than a Jeep, even a JL. If the 2x4 I drove is any indication.They are quite plush

[Apex]

That ever-present itch needs to get scratched every now and then.

I've itched it plenty, it'd be stupid to itch it now.

I need to figure out my job situation first - either find a way to be successful where I'm at, or find a job elsewhere.

Yeah, your job situation is a bit at the moment.

The stable you have is pretty damn good at the moment too. No need to change anything other than to change things up.

[CorvetteWaxer]

LOL, just got a few emails back from a Sacramento dealer on a JL order..

I knew it wasn't going anywhere since there was a hard push for me to come in and not negotiate over email...

After about 5 emails telling me I will get a great deal below MSRP, I got this:

Are you available to make it in today for 10 minutes? This way we know and have your authorization that the build is accurate and we get you the best deal posssible? As you know your presence is your leverage

Me:
"I didn't know I need leverage these days. You are still a bit over an hour away from me, so I'm not wasting your time or mine by coming in if you're not really willing to work a deal. This is sounding pretty bad from your last response and makes me think you might try to pull the BS 4 square sheet out on me and/or demand a credit check when I am more than likely paying cash."

Lastly, from them:

On a brand new JL Wrangler that currently have mark ups on them we can do MSRP on your order.

Me:

"Okay, thanks. I sure am glad I didn't drive over an hour in to the dealership for my "leverage".... "

[max225]

LOL, just got a few emails back from a Sacramento dealer on a JL order..

I knew it wasn't going anywhere since there was a hard push for me to come in and not negotiate over email...

After about 5 emails telling me I will get a great deal below MSRP, I got this:

Are you available to make it in today for 10 minutes? This way we know and have your authorization that the build is accurate and we get you the best deal posssible? As you know your presence is your leverage

Me:
"I didn't know I need leverage these days. You are still a bit over an hour away from me, so I'm not wasting your time or mine by coming in if you're not really willing to work a deal. This is sounding pretty bad from your last response and makes me think you might try to pull the BS 4 square sheet out on me and/or demand a credit check when I am more than likely paying cash."

Lastly, from them:

On a brand new JL Wrangler that currently have mark ups on them we can do MSRP on your order.

Me:

"Okay, thanks. I sure am glad I didn't drive over an hour in to the dealership for my "leverage".... "

Typical BS. Hey so the 7k off deal you got in Woodland is epic. I have not seen anything near/better than that. Why not just take that?

[CorvetteWaxer]

LOL, just got a few emails back from a Sacramento dealer on a JL order..

I knew it wasn't going anywhere since there was a hard push for me to come in and not negotiate over email...

After about 5 emails telling me I will get a great deal below MSRP, I got this:



Me:
"I didn't know I need leverage these days. You are still a bit over an hour away from me, so I'm not wasting your time or mine by coming in if you're not really willing to work a deal. This is sounding pretty bad from your last response and makes me think you might try to pull the BS 4 square sheet out on me and/or demand a credit check when I am more than likely paying cash."

Lastly, from them:



Me:

"Okay, thanks. I sure am glad I didn't drive over an hour in to the dealership for my "leverage".... "

Typical BS. Hey so the 7k off deal you got in Woodland is epic. I have not seen anything near/better than that. Why not just take that?

Nope, Woodland lied to me and pulled their offer. The sales guy handed me off to the sales manager and we agreed face to face, then later when I got home and called to give him the go-ahead he claimed he only offered $500 off MSRP. Whatever, my wife was pissed but I kind of expected it TBH.

So, South County went dark and my written deal sits with Dillon's in Idaho. Will probably just place the order tomorrow morning with them if Adam stays silent.

[max225]

Typical BS. Hey so the 7k off deal you got in Woodland is epic. I have not seen anything near/better than that. Why not just take that?

Nope, Woodland lied to me and pulled their offer. The sales guy handed me off to the sales manager and we agreed face to face, then later when I got home and called to give him the go-ahead he claimed he only offered $500 off MSRP. Whatever, my wife was pissed but I kind of expected it TBH.

So, South County went dark and my written deal sits with Dillon's in Idaho. Will probably just place the order tomorrow morning with them if Adam stays silent.

Yea go figure... Typical BS games. Which is why I refuse to go anywhere without a written offer. In particular FCA I think the Idaho place is likely the best deal... California has too much money...

[max225]

I still don't understand how a can give you an offer and balk at it moments later. It has happened to me plenty. This is the second biggest purchase and you're surrounded by fucking crooks. The industry needs to be re-vamped. You're not buying a $1 can of coke you're buying a 50k item...

[CorvetteWaxer]

I still don't understand how a can give you an offer and balk at it moments later. It has happened to me plenty. This is the second biggest purchase and you're surrounded by fucking crooks. The industry needs to be re-vamped. You're not buying a $1 can of coke you're buying a 50k item...

Yep.

If I'm not buying a Chevy, I have to be on guard. At least I know when I look at Chevy's I have 2 dealerships I can work with where the sales managers and Service director are actual friends and I can get a fair deal.

Everyone else? I'm just waiting for the to be presented at the last minute.

Scumbag salesmen. I'm not surprised our resident isn't having a good time at work.

[ChrisoftheNorth]

I still don't understand how a can give you an offer and balk at it moments later. It has happened to me plenty. This is the second biggest purchase and you're surrounded by fucking crooks. The industry needs to be re-vamped. You're not buying a $1 can of coke you're buying a 50k item...

Yep.

If I'm not buying a Chevy, I have to be on guard. At least I know when I look at Chevy's I have 2 dealerships I can work with where the sales managers and Service director are actual friends and I can get a fair deal.

Everyone else? I'm just waiting for the to be presented at the last minute.

Scumbag salesmen. I'm not surprised our resident isn't having a good time at work.

Sounds like you guys need to drive a ZR2...

[Desertbreh]

Interesting. All three cars in my garage have been positive experience, I guess I'm just lucky.

1. Bought Brahhoe PP from an old man in OC....car turned out to be legit as repped, no issues, no hidden repairs.
2 Bought C6 GS sight unseen (inspected doe) and was shipped to be from Dallas, car was as repped, no shipping issues.
3. Bought BMW from Crevier, made an internet deal with internet saleswoman, had the wrong color issues but that was comped $2K, then she brought up the
$2K USAA discount, left with new car with $7K on the hood,

I dunno, I hate the foursquare bros as much as everybody here, but it seems to me that most high volume dealers have an internet salesperson who has to paper a deal sufficiently for you to show up.

Also, bought my VW GTI from VW of Downtown LA, internet sales guy there had everything totally prepped and ready, literally walked in and drove away 40 minutes later.

So, you know, it can be done.

[Desertbreh]

Interesting. All three cars in my garage have been positive experience, I guess I'm just lucky.

1. Bought Brahhoe PP from an old man in OC....car turned out to be legit as repped, no issues, no hidden repairs.
2 Bought C6 GS sight unseen (inspected doe) and was shipped to be from Dallas, car was as repped, no shipping issues.
3. Bought BMW from Crevier, made an internet deal with internet saleswoman, had the wrong color issues but that was comped $2K, then she brought up the
$2K USAA discount, left with new car with $7K on the hood,

I dunno, I hate the foursquare bros as much as everybody here, but it seems to me that most high volume dealers have an internet salesperson who has to paper a deal sufficiently for you to show up.

Also, bought my VW GTI from VW of Downtown LA, internet sales guy there had everything totally prepped and ready, literally walked in and drove away 40 minutes later.

So, you know, it can be done.

It can be done, but so many dealers fight the way it should be done. Managers are old-school and want the dog and pony show done, customers are conditioned to the back-and-forth negotiation bullshit, and everyone's conditioned to believing the other party is lying.

When I was an internet I'd have everything ready to go for when the talking wallet arrived. Doing all that shit over the phone or e-mail was so much more productive, because I could do the same for several deals at once. Dealing in person is such a fucking time suck because everyone draws it out over several hours.

I'm not so conditioned. If you can't make a deal on the internet I'll find somebody who can. That whole "presence is your leverage" thing is If 90% of the shit I want can arrive in a box from Amazon, I can do a car just as efficiently.

[Johnny_P]

Typical BS. Hey so the 7k off deal you got in Woodland is epic. I have not seen anything near/better than that. Why not just take that?

Nope, Woodland lied to me and pulled their offer. The sales guy handed me off to the sales manager and we agreed face to face, then later when I got home and called to give him the go-ahead he claimed he only offered $500 off MSRP. Whatever, my wife was pissed but I kind of expected it TBH.

So, South County went dark and my written deal sits with Dillon's in Idaho. Will probably just place the order tomorrow morning with them if Adam stays silent.

What in the actual fuck....

Dealerships make me so hard. Buying my subaru was easy but there was a lot of bullshit I put up with before it. When I got my GTI the one dealer tried to change the price 2x on me. When my girlfriend leased her VW they had to order it and told her the incorrect options it had, juicing the price $500 when it didn't have heated seats... she called them out on it and eventually they agreed to install heated seat (singular). She went to pick it up and had to at them to get them to install the other The worst was the Honda place I almost bought a truck from. I got the whole "trade in your car + $10k would we have a deal?" I said we could talk at that point, he came back with "Good news we can do your car + $12750!" I walked out.

[Johnny_P]

I'm not so conditioned. If you can't make a deal on the internet I'll find somebody who can. That whole "presence is your leverage" thing is If 90% of the shit I want can arrive in a box from Amazon, I can do a car just as efficiently.

You and I are very similar.

The average car buyer, especially the types, likes the back and forth because they think it means they're getting a good deal after making their go back and forth to the office several times.

I hate back and forth. No offense to you or your position. But if I could just buy a car by clicking around on a MFR website... that's what I'd do. Select to have it delivered at my house, someone shows up a few weeks later rings the doorbell, I sign papers, they hand me the keys, done. But instead there's a veil put over the actual price of the car and prerequisite back and forth negotiations and nothing is transparent so who actually knows if you're taking the shaft or not.

[troyguitar]

I can't imagine that the average buyer today actually enjoys the game. Maybe the average male buyer over the age of 50.

[Desertbreh]

You and I are very similar.

The average car buyer, especially the types, likes the back and forth because they think it means they're getting a good deal after making their go back and forth to the office several times.

I hate back and forth. No offense to you or your position. But if I could just buy a car by clicking around on a MFR website... that's what I'd do. Select to have it delivered at my house, someone shows up a few weeks later rings the doorbell, I sign papers, they hand me the keys, done. But instead there's a veil put over the actual price of the car and prerequisite back and forth negotiations and nothing is transparent so who actually knows if you're taking the shaft or not.

You can do it you just have to find the right dealer. I literally have no compunction about driving as far as the Bay Area or Phoenix to deal with somebody who is a straight shooter. Waxer's Idaho idea?

[Desertbreh]

I can't imagine that the average buyer today actually enjoys the game. Maybe the average male buyer over the age of 50.

Times have changed.

[Johnny_P]

I hate back and forth. No offense to you or your position. But if I could just buy a car by clicking around on a MFR website... that's what I'd do. Select to have it delivered at my house, someone shows up a few weeks later rings the doorbell, I sign papers, they hand me the keys, done. But instead there's a veil put over the actual price of the car and prerequisite back and forth negotiations and nothing is transparent so who actually knows if you're taking the shaft or not.

You can do it you just have to find the right dealer. I literally have no compunction about driving as far as the Bay Area or Phoenix to deal with somebody who is a straight shooter. Waxer's Idaho idea?

I drove 2 hours away to buy my rally sedan despite there being about 20 Subaru dealers closer than that.

[max225]

I can't imagine that the average buyer today actually enjoys the game. Maybe the average male buyer over the age of 50.

My co workers love to haggle and tell me about how great of they got on their odyssey... and they think they are the best negotiators on the planet. It is fucking