House Fire

[ChrisoftheNorth]

So, on October 30 we wrote to LL because the air conditioner wasn't, well, conditioning. This time it was cooler out so we realized that while it stopped blowing cold, it also wouldn't blow hot. LL calls home warranty company, they send a tech out, states unit needs to be replaced because the outdoor unit and indoor unit are mismatched, and it has a coil leak. COOL. Then 2 weeks later we get this major nasty weather including cold front (talking like high 30's low 40's LOWS and mid 50's HIGHS in San Antonio, and CLOUDY/grey all day. At night we would need heat and the LL said "oh the system has emergency/auxiliary heat, look for that option."

House had a Nest thermostat and I googled how to access that function. "Auxiliary heat lockout, the thermostat will determine when to turn it on based on aLgOrIthM" fine. So we turned the heat on. Eventually, the system turns on the auxiliary heat function, and it worked! However, it would require the system to run for some time doing "nothing" trying to convince the heat pump to work. Once it tries long enough with no change in thermostat temp, it kicks on the heat.

A few nights of that, and then comes the night of 11/22. We put kiddo to sleep. One cat was upstairs in our bed (his nightly ritual) and he waits for us to come to bed. Other cat was with us downstairs and we decided to watch Elf. Normally after I put kiddo to sleep, my wife either works on her craft stuff or she goes downstairs to chill. I usually "wait for kiddo to fall asleep" in our bed, and sometimes that ends up with me falling asleep too.

Anyways, we are sitting on couch watching movie, eating some food, and then we hear what I can describe as a popcorn noise. I thought it was the cat fucking up the carpet upstairs, and then our cat with us BOLTS UP from laying down, LASER focuses on the stairs, and SPRINTS up. I think they're gonna go fight and wake the kiddo, so I run after her.

I get to the top of the stairs and I hear the popping sound and I don't see any of the cats. I look across the loft at the back wall of it and see sparks/flashing behind the door (through the gaps of the door) and I am like "OH, FUCKIN.. NOPE" yell downstairs "BABE CALL 911, THERE'S A FIRE" and then I get the kiddo (she was scared by being woken up, but not due to smoke/fire) and ran downstairs. Wife in her adrenaline brings me a pot of water and I said THAT WON'T HELP. She calls 911, tells them our address, we open the garage door in case we need to get the car out, and she waits outside with kiddo.

I run back in to get our fire suppression/extinguisher (its one of those spray ones, mostly for kitchen fires, but my instincts/adrenaline just takes me to where they're at) and I try to go upstairs to find the cats, realize I should probably not touch the door knob/open the door barehanded so I go back downstairs to get oven mitt, and then I go back upstairs and there's smoke now filling the entire second floor/loft. Look under bed for cats, can't find them. Go downstairs and wife is just distraught worried about the cats... I go up once more and realize that I cannot see my hand if I held it a few inches in front of me. I prayed that their self-preservation instincts keep them low.

Fire department responds in under 5 minutes, which we are so thankful for. They go and do their thing. The final determination was that the power supply box leading to the air handler unit in the HVAC closet might've shorted, but that's just at a quick glance. They won't fully inspect the unit or do forensics at the lab. Investigator said if it was running aux/electrical or running for longer (aka heat pump failure to turn on auxiliary heat) it could've contributed to overloading/working the power supply box; if the fuse was original they just erode/chip/etc. over time so it probably was literally flinging lightning bolts inside the supply box, melted and caught fire.

The fire itself was mostly contained to the HVAC closet and the 4 walls that connect to other parts of the house (specifically one wall of our master closet, two to an adjacent bedroom which is my wife's office, and then the loft wall. Whatever wasn't damaged by the fire was completely damaged by the smoke, or the water from the firefighting. Every air vent on 2nd floor was also smashed to ensure heat/flame wasn't spreading. House is completely fucked. FD estimated $60-80k+ in damages. Inspector/adjuster said probably more.

We are in a hotel (well, wife and kiddo went to Florida but will come back soon) until 12/15, our renter's insurance paid us out right away (thank god) and we are now just going day by day to salvage what we can. We are obviously breaking the lease (well, mutually) and getting our deposit/move in costs minus the first month back. We also found a new place like 6 houses away in the same neighborhood to rent and are in the application process of it. Cats are fine, we found them once the fire was out, cleverly hiding in full self preservation mode. One of them smelled like BBQ for a few days.

I have a junk hauler contact who is taking whatever is unsalvageable in his trailer and takes it to the dump for like $60. Returned the couch to Costco for our money back, and just saving whatever we can and packing it in those heavy duty Costco containers. Clothes will be washed at some point, but not right now.

What a mess. This was an accident, but we are still obviously at some point upset with LL because this issue took so long that once they would've replaced the unit it might not have happened. We just want to move into the new place and settle in before we even dedicate more braincells to trying to figure out what we could do legally beyond it.

Seems it got lost in the walls of texts about fire safety and asshole cats but here’s the story

Holy shit dude. Terrifying. Really really glad you guys are all OK including the cats. Great you had renter's insurance, I think working with insurance and moving on from this is the best course of action. Thankfully you found something else quickly.

And it's a cautionary tale for all of us to keep things maintained and fixed in a timely manner.

AUX/Emergency heat isn't intended for regular use, it's just there to prevent a house from freezing in the even of heat pump failure (at least that's what the dudes told me when I had heat pumps installed in my last house). It's basically an oversized toaster element, which draws insane power to run. Which is OK when keeping a house at 40 degrees. But 70 degrees takes a ton of power, so if the electrical system was old/corroded/or simply too small (likely if the outdoor and indoor unit weren't matched...indicating corner cutting), it's a recipe for disaster. It also should have been fused in some way to prevent the catastrophic shorting (I know that popcorn sound all too well from my own trials and tribulations), so there's clearly some fishiness going on here. Circumventing electrical code, bad/undersized parts, etc.

Bottom line: never cut corners and frequently inspect major mechanical systems.

[wap]

Same here, around 35-ish feet from top of the foundation to the attic FLOOR/2nd floor ceiling.

One thing about balloon construction that we were told is that it's a very strong way to build a house and stands up well to extremely heavy winds, which is important here in the Midwest, home of most of the tornadoes on the planet. Not that a tornado couldn't destroy our house, but it'll supposedly stand up to anything just short of a full-on tornado hit.

The studs in my house actually extended above the attic floor a few feet. The roof was really shallow pitched like typical prairie style.

I've heard both that balloon style is stronger and weaker. I think it's all a wash these days TBH, but it's interesting how perceptions are so mixed.

Interesting. Were they like knee walls in the attic then?

Can't imagine how it would be weaker. One integrated structure from foundation to attic without breaks in exterior studs at every floor level. I'm not an engineer

[ChrisoftheNorth]

The studs in my house actually extended above the attic floor a few feet. The roof was really shallow pitched like typical prairie style.

I've heard both that balloon style is stronger and weaker. I think it's all a wash these days TBH, but it's interesting how perceptions are so mixed.

Interesting. Were they like knee walls in the attic then?

Can't imagine how it would be weaker. One integrated structure from foundation to attic without breaks in exterior studs at every floor level. I'm not an engineer

Yep, knee walls around the entire perimeter of the attic. I assume it was done to make the attic usable, the center had like 10 feet of headroom.

"Weaker" apparently because they're just built from the slab up with minimal other structure to secure to the foundation. But my house was 110 years old when we bought it and it's still there standing strong so

[wap]

Interesting. Were they like knee walls in the attic then?

Can't imagine how it would be weaker. One integrated structure from foundation to attic without breaks in exterior studs at every floor level. I'm not an engineer

Yep, knee walls around the entire perimeter of the attic. I assume it was done to make the attic usable, the center had like 10 feet of headroom.

"Weaker" apparently because they're just built from the slab up with minimal other structure to secure to the foundation. But my house was 110 years old when we bought it and it's still there standing strong so

Exactly. Mine is 116 yo this year and the floors are still level. Put a ball down and it doesn't roll.

[razr390]

Seems it got lost in the walls of texts about fire safety and asshole cats but here’s the story

Holy shit dude. Terrifying. Really really glad you guys are all OK including the cats. Great you had renter's insurance, I think working with insurance and moving on from this is the best course of action. Thankfully you found something else quickly.

And it's a cautionary tale for all of us to keep things maintained and fixed in a timely manner.

AUX/Emergency heat isn't intended for regular use, it's just there to prevent a house from freezing in the even of heat pump failure (at least that's what the dudes told me when I had heat pumps installed in my last house). It's basically an oversized toaster element, which draws insane power to run. Which is OK when keeping a house at 40 degrees. But 70 degrees takes a ton of power, so if the electrical system was old/corroded/or simply too small (likely if the outdoor and indoor unit weren't matched...indicating corner cutting), it's a recipe for disaster. It also should have been fused in some way to prevent the catastrophic shorting (I know that popcorn sound all too well from my own trials and tribulations), so there's clearly some fishiness going on here. Circumventing electrical code, bad/undersized parts, etc.

Bottom line: never cut corners and frequently inspect major mechanical systems.

We had a tech come out when we moved in to inspect the system “it’s old, it’ll probably die soon. We’ll see!”

Then in September it wasn’t blowing cold, another tech came by and topped off Freon didn’t even look so well

Then the October one with the warranty. Then fire.

Owner told us to run emergency heat, they’ll take $100 off rent and “go buy a portable heater from Walmart”

Landlord wasn’t malicious but this is still negligent AF. If the HVAC was NOT GOOD, and BEING REPLACED, how about DONT TELL US TO USE ANY FUNCTION ON IT, AND BRING US A FUCKING ALTERNATIVE SOLUTION

[ChrisoftheNorth]

Holy shit dude. Terrifying. Really really glad you guys are all OK including the cats. Great you had renter's insurance, I think working with insurance and moving on from this is the best course of action. Thankfully you found something else quickly.

And it's a cautionary tale for all of us to keep things maintained and fixed in a timely manner.

AUX/Emergency heat isn't intended for regular use, it's just there to prevent a house from freezing in the even of heat pump failure (at least that's what the dudes told me when I had heat pumps installed in my last house). It's basically an oversized toaster element, which draws insane power to run. Which is OK when keeping a house at 40 degrees. But 70 degrees takes a ton of power, so if the electrical system was old/corroded/or simply too small (likely if the outdoor and indoor unit weren't matched...indicating corner cutting), it's a recipe for disaster. It also should have been fused in some way to prevent the catastrophic shorting (I know that popcorn sound all too well from my own trials and tribulations), so there's clearly some fishiness going on here. Circumventing electrical code, bad/undersized parts, etc.

Bottom line: never cut corners and frequently inspect major mechanical systems.

We had a tech come out when we moved in to inspect the system “it’s old, it’ll probably die soon. We’ll see!”

Then in September it wasn’t blowing cold, another tech came by and topped off Freon didn’t even look so well

Then the October one with the warranty. Then fire.

Owner told us to run emergency heat, they’ll take $100 off rent and “go buy a portable heater from Walmart”

Landlord wasn’t malicious but this is still negligent AF. If the HVAC was NOT GOOD, and BEING REPLACED, how about DONT TELL US TO USE ANY FUNCTION ON IT, AND BRING US A FUCKING ALTERNATIVE SOLUTION

Yea, this is what I was getting at. Telling you to use the system in a way that it's not intended put you and your family in danger. The system was already compromised, then abusing the emergency provisions put it over the edge.

Absolutely negligence. I would have paid for a hotel for my renters until I could get it fixed if I were LL. But then I'd be bankrupt, so that's why I'm not an LL.

Negligence will be hard to prove, tho. Best to just move on IMO. Frustrating, but it is what it is

[max225]

We had a tech come out when we moved in to inspect the system “it’s old, it’ll probably die soon. We’ll see!”

Then in September it wasn’t blowing cold, another tech came by and topped off Freon didn’t even look so well

Then the October one with the warranty. Then fire.

Owner told us to run emergency heat, they’ll take $100 off rent and “go buy a portable heater from Walmart”

Landlord wasn’t malicious but this is still negligent AF. If the HVAC was NOT GOOD, and BEING REPLACED, how about DONT TELL US TO USE ANY FUNCTION ON IT, AND BRING US A FUCKING ALTERNATIVE SOLUTION

Yea, this is what I was getting at. Telling you to use the system in a way that it's not intended put you and your family in danger. The system was already compromised, then abusing the emergency provisions put it over the edge.

Absolutely negligence. I would have paid for a hotel for my renters until I could get it fixed if I were LL. But then I'd be bankrupt, so that's why I'm not an LL.

Negligence will be hard to prove, tho. Best to just move on IMO. Frustrating, but it is what it is

Based on my slumlord buddy, the alternative heating solution was in fact a space heater short term but a proper fix after. Didn’t know she offered that.

Doubt she knew her cash cow was going to go up in flames… makes no sense to now have 6 + months of lost rent and a possible lawsuit … but Rudy should be made whole somehow also… where that middle ground would be … likely only a liar will find out (lawyer)

[razr390]

We had a tech come out when we moved in to inspect the system “it’s old, it’ll probably die soon. We’ll see!”

Then in September it wasn’t blowing cold, another tech came by and topped off Freon didn’t even look so well

Then the October one with the warranty. Then fire.

Owner told us to run emergency heat, they’ll take $100 off rent and “go buy a portable heater from Walmart”

Landlord wasn’t malicious but this is still negligent AF. If the HVAC was NOT GOOD, and BEING REPLACED, how about DONT TELL US TO USE ANY FUNCTION ON IT, AND BRING US A FUCKING ALTERNATIVE SOLUTION

Yea, this is what I was getting at. Telling you to use the system in a way that it's not intended put you and your family in danger. The system was already compromised, then abusing the emergency provisions put it over the edge.

Absolutely negligence. I would have paid for a hotel for my renters until I could get it fixed if I were LL. But then I'd be bankrupt, so that's why I'm not an LL.

Negligence will be hard to prove, tho. Best to just move on IMO. Frustrating, but it is what it is

Oh for sure. We want our move in costs minus first month’s rent, and the days of November we couldn’t live in the house and we want nothing to do with them whatsoever and I think they’d prefer that too.

[SAWCE]

Dang.. might want to check rental laws, in Cali the landlord would be required to pay for hotel for you guys. I definitely wouldn’t be offering to pay out of pocket as a renter.

[razr390]

Dang.. might want to check rental laws, in Cali the landlord would be required to pay for hotel for you guys. I definitely wouldn’t be offering to pay out of pocket as a renter.

Our renter's insurance took care of that for us, and will probably pursue LL's insurance (we exchanged policy #'s).

We are in a hotel until 12/15, and will probably utilize all those days so we can move in without also sleeping in the place.

[razr390]

Yea, this is what I was getting at. Telling you to use the system in a way that it's not intended put you and your family in danger. The system was already compromised, then abusing the emergency provisions put it over the edge.

Absolutely negligence. I would have paid for a hotel for my renters until I could get it fixed if I were LL. But then I'd be bankrupt, so that's why I'm not an LL.

Negligence will be hard to prove, tho. Best to just move on IMO. Frustrating, but it is what it is

Based on my slumlord buddy, the alternative heating solution was in fact a space heater short term but a proper fix after. Didn’t know she offered that.

Doubt she knew her cash cow was going to go up in flames… makes no sense to now have 6 + months of lost rent and a possible lawsuit … but Rudy should be made whole somehow also… where that middle ground would be … likely only a liar will find out (lawyer)

Only a liar would find out, and then take 50-60%. No thanks

I just want to move on after this. Her space heater suggestion was for us to buy one, on our own, if the emergency heat wasn't working enough/working at all.

She didn't offer to reimburse us for anything or pay for it herself, which is what the LL is required to do. She told us she'd knock $100 off rent for the "delay in the new HVAC"

Yea, cool.

[razr390]

BTW huge shout out to Costco, they took our couch and gave us a refund.

[Desertbreh]

Dang.. might want to check rental laws, in Cali the landlord would be required to pay for hotel for you guys. I definitely wouldn’t be offering to pay out of pocket as a renter.

Our renter's insurance took care of that for us, and will probably pursue LL's insurance (we exchanged policy #'s).

We are in a hotel until 12/15, and will probably utilize all those days so we can move in without also sleeping in the place.

If you were single this would be a better situ.

[razr390]

Our renter's insurance took care of that for us, and will probably pursue LL's insurance (we exchanged policy #'s).

We are in a hotel until 12/15, and will probably utilize all those days so we can move in without also sleeping in the place.

If you were single this would be a better situ.

Wife and Kiddo are in Florida with family. We got approved for a house, and plan to move in next week. Apparently our hotel is booked until JANUARY 22, 2023
So we will stay in the hotel and move into the house gradually

[Valkyrie]

If you were single this would be a better situ.

Wife and Kiddo are in Florida with family. We got approved for a house, and plan to move in next week. Apparently our hotel is booked until JANUARY 22, 2023
So we will stay in the hotel and move into the house gradually

I don't think there's a point in pursuing negligence. Those aux heaters are made to work hard, just not efficiently. Using it should only make your electric bill go sky high, not start fires.

[razr390]

Wife and Kiddo are in Florida with family. We got approved for a house, and plan to move in next week. Apparently our hotel is booked until JANUARY 22, 2023
So we will stay in the hotel and move into the house gradually

I don't think there's a point in pursuing negligence. Those aux heaters are made to work hard, just not efficiently. Using it should only make your electric bill go sky high, not start fires.

Whatever anger we have is at just trusting the LL when they told us to use an emergency function of a unit that was in need of replacement... It's more like we did it in good faith because we trust them/their maintenance before we moved in. but yeah, we are just wanting to move on primarily.

[golftdibrad1]

So, on October 30 we wrote to LL because the air conditioner wasn't, well, conditioning. This time it was cooler out so we realized that while it stopped blowing cold, it also wouldn't blow hot. LL calls home warranty company, they send a tech out, states unit needs to be replaced because the outdoor unit and indoor unit are mismatched, and it has a coil leak. COOL. Then 2 weeks later we get this major nasty weather including cold front (talking like high 30's low 40's LOWS and mid 50's HIGHS in San Antonio, and CLOUDY/grey all day. At night we would need heat and the LL said "oh the system has emergency/auxiliary heat, look for that option."

House had a Nest thermostat and I googled how to access that function. "Auxiliary heat lockout, the thermostat will determine when to turn it on based on aLgOrIthM" fine. So we turned the heat on. Eventually, the system turns on the auxiliary heat function, and it worked! However, it would require the system to run for some time doing "nothing" trying to convince the heat pump to work. Once it tries long enough with no change in thermostat temp, it kicks on the heat.

ok, that story is terrifying but I'm only quoting this part because I need to lay down some later.

Holy shit dude. Terrifying. Really really glad you guys are all OK including the cats. Great you had renter's insurance, I think working with insurance and moving on from this is the best course of action. Thankfully you found something else quickly.

And it's a cautionary tale for all of us to keep things maintained and fixed in a timely manner.

AUX/Emergency heat isn't intended for regular use, it's just there to prevent a house from freezing in the even of heat pump failure (at least that's what the dudes told me when I had heat pumps installed in my last house). It's basically an oversized toaster element, which draws insane power to run. Which is OK when keeping a house at 40 degrees. But 70 degrees takes a ton of power, so if the electrical system was old/corroded/or simply too small (likely if the outdoor and indoor unit weren't matched...indicating corner cutting), it's a recipe for disaster. It also should have been fused in some way to prevent the catastrophic shorting (I know that popcorn sound all too well from my own trials and tribulations), so there's clearly some fishiness going on here. Circumventing electrical code, bad/undersized parts, etc.

Bottom line: never cut corners and frequently inspect major mechanical systems.

We had a tech come out when we moved in to inspect the system “it’s old, it’ll probably die soon. We’ll see!”

Then in September it wasn’t blowing cold, another tech came by and topped off Freon didn’t even look so well

Then the October one with the warranty. Then fire.

Owner told us to run emergency heat, they’ll take $100 off rent and “go buy a portable heater from Walmart”

Landlord wasn’t malicious but this is still negligent AF. If the HVAC was NOT GOOD, and BEING REPLACED, how about DONT TELL US TO USE ANY FUNCTION ON IT, AND BRING US A FUCKING ALTERNATIVE SOLUTION

re: bold: Chris you are not correct here; this is a whole house system re: italicas: because these guys were installing those mini splits in your house and they work completely different from a central system in south texas. They might be correct about splits; I don't know because I don't have experience with those units.

Trudy: It sounds like you had a central home heat pump, and an older one. They simply just don't work well past a certain outside temp; put another way it can only get the outside coil so cold and if outside is lower than that you are not transferring energy. . Therefore the units have to be sized with a full size heater, either electric or gas but yours sounded like all electric, to provide the necessary amount of BTU addition for the home per local codes.

Its an Auxiliary system. It's not backup, it's not emergency (but is sometimes labeled as such in the t-stat, poor wording), its not supplemental; its intended to be used 100% of the time in the case of cold outside temps or heat pump failure.

You were certainly in a difficult situation, and we cannot know the details of what the hvac tech guy found or didn't find. From what you said it sounds like a leaking and or faulty heat pump. This is independent of the other AUX heater. Now it might not have been used alot because the house does have a heat pump and well texas is hot, and that might have lead to the untimely failure but that is pure speculation. Hard to know.

My point is here cut the LL some slack. They were working the problem, and the unit has the auxiliary heat available for use. Tech reported that part of system was in working order. Space heaters are supplemental and can't heat a whole house. And frankly a huge electrical fire risk on their own. The choices were to use the equipment as intended for the heat only, or be cold. They were trying to help keep you warm.

Whatever anger we have is at just trusting the LL when they told us to use an emergency function of a unit that was in need of replacement... It's more like we did it in good faith because we trust them/their maintenance before we moved in. but yeah, we are just wanting to move on primarily.

My advice here is to try to not be angry, as I explained above I dont think its very well directed. Just be thankful you and the family are safe and you have another living situation figured out.

[ChrisoftheNorth]

So, on October 30 we wrote to LL because the air conditioner wasn't, well, conditioning. This time it was cooler out so we realized that while it stopped blowing cold, it also wouldn't blow hot. LL calls home warranty company, they send a tech out, states unit needs to be replaced because the outdoor unit and indoor unit are mismatched, and it has a coil leak. COOL. Then 2 weeks later we get this major nasty weather including cold front (talking like high 30's low 40's LOWS and mid 50's HIGHS in San Antonio, and CLOUDY/grey all day. At night we would need heat and the LL said "oh the system has emergency/auxiliary heat, look for that option."

House had a Nest thermostat and I googled how to access that function. "Auxiliary heat lockout, the thermostat will determine when to turn it on based on aLgOrIthM" fine. So we turned the heat on. Eventually, the system turns on the auxiliary heat function, and it worked! However, it would require the system to run for some time doing "nothing" trying to convince the heat pump to work. Once it tries long enough with no change in thermostat temp, it kicks on the heat.

ok, that story is terrifying but I'm only quoting this part because I need to lay down some later.

We had a tech come out when we moved in to inspect the system “it’s old, it’ll probably die soon. We’ll see!”

Then in September it wasn’t blowing cold, another tech came by and topped off Freon didn’t even look so well

Then the October one with the warranty. Then fire.

Owner told us to run emergency heat, they’ll take $100 off rent and “go buy a portable heater from Walmart”

Landlord wasn’t malicious but this is still negligent AF. If the HVAC was NOT GOOD, and BEING REPLACED, how about DONT TELL US TO USE ANY FUNCTION ON IT, AND BRING US A FUCKING ALTERNATIVE SOLUTION

re: bold: Chris you are not correct here; this is a whole house system re: italicas: because these guys were installing those mini splits in your house and they work completely different from a central system in south texas. They might be correct about splits; I don't know because I don't have experience with those units.

Trudy: It sounds like you had a central home heat pump, and an older one. They simply just don't work well past a certain outside temp; put another way it can only get the outside coil so cold and if outside is lower than that you are not transferring energy. . Therefore the units have to be sized with a full size heater, either electric or gas but yours sounded like all electric, to provide the necessary amount of BTU addition for the home per local codes.

Its an Auxiliary system. It's not backup, it's not emergency (but is sometimes labeled as such in the t-stat, poor wording), its not supplemental; its intended to be used 100% of the time in the case of cold outside temps or heat pump failure.

You were certainly in a difficult situation, and we cannot know the details of what the hvac tech guy found or didn't find. From what you said it sounds like a leaking and or faulty heat pump. This is independent of the other AUX heater. Now it might not have been used alot because the house does have a heat pump and well texas is hot, and that might have lead to the untimely failure but that is pure speculation. Hard to know.

My point is here cut the LL some slack. They were working the problem, and the unit has the auxiliary heat available for use. Tech reported that part of system was in working order. Space heaters are supplemental and can't heat a whole house. And frankly a huge electrical fire risk on their own. The choices were to use the equipment as intended for the heat only, or be cold. They were trying to help keep you warm.

Whatever anger we have is at just trusting the LL when they told us to use an emergency function of a unit that was in need of replacement... It's more like we did it in good faith because we trust them/their maintenance before we moved in. but yeah, we are just wanting to move on primarily.

My advice here is to try to not be angry, as I explained above I dont think its very well directed. Just be thankful you and the family are safe and you have another living situation figured out.

Interesting. So why the spark show fire then? Faulty electrical? Even more to me if this is an intended use for the system. But to your point, perhaps the LL deserves a bit of slack then.

Makes sense for an entire house to have this sort of Aux system to help the heat pump if that's the only heat source.

[Johnny_P]

Holy shit dude. Terrifying. Really really glad you guys are all OK including the cats. Great you had renter's insurance, I think working with insurance and moving on from this is the best course of action. Thankfully you found something else quickly.

And it's a cautionary tale for all of us to keep things maintained and fixed in a timely manner.

AUX/Emergency heat isn't intended for regular use, it's just there to prevent a house from freezing in the even of heat pump failure (at least that's what the dudes told me when I had heat pumps installed in my last house). It's basically an oversized toaster element, which draws insane power to run. Which is OK when keeping a house at 40 degrees. But 70 degrees takes a ton of power, so if the electrical system was old/corroded/or simply too small (likely if the outdoor and indoor unit weren't matched...indicating corner cutting), it's a recipe for disaster. It also should have been fused in some way to prevent the catastrophic shorting (I know that popcorn sound all too well from my own trials and tribulations), so there's clearly some fishiness going on here. Circumventing electrical code, bad/undersized parts, etc.

Bottom line: never cut corners and frequently inspect major mechanical systems.

We had a tech come out when we moved in to inspect the system “it’s old, it’ll probably die soon. We’ll see!”

Then in September it wasn’t blowing cold, another tech came by and topped off Freon didn’t even look so well

Then the October one with the warranty. Then fire.

Owner told us to run emergency heat, they’ll take $100 off rent and “go buy a portable heater from Walmart”

Landlord wasn’t malicious but this is still negligent AF. If the HVAC was NOT GOOD, and BEING REPLACED, how about DONT TELL US TO USE ANY FUNCTION ON IT, AND BRING US A FUCKING ALTERNATIVE SOLUTION

Not downplaying what happened here. The aux heater is an electric coil and the main heater is a heat pump or gas or whatever. An inspection of the main heat source wouldn’t necessarily turn up shitty wiring or a bad breaker.

It was not a bad suggestion from LL per se, if it had been installed correctly or was functioning correctly.

[Johnny_P]

Holy balls Rudy. Glad y’all are ok. Is insurance going to cover all your replacement shit or moving costs?

I just bought new smoke / CO detectors. I should install them. When I moved in here none of them were working.

[Tar]

At the end of the day, whoever installed the aux/emergency system should have refused to connect it the way they did. Retrofit installs require an electrical inspection, and they would red flag the wiring/electrical panel and that would need to be changed out with new 100/200 amp service. Expensive? Maybe, but not as expensive as a house fire or loss of life. Rudy's family was at risk and that's unacceptable, LL at fault if anything happened to them.

[ChrisoftheNorth]

At the end of the day, whoever installed the aux/emergency system should have refused to connect it the way they did. Retrofit installs require an electrical inspection, and they would red flag the wiring/electrical panel and that would need to be changed out with new 100/200 amp service. Expensive? Maybe, but not as expensive as a house fire or loss of life. Rudy's family was at risk and that's unacceptable, LL at fault if anything happened to them.

My guess is the electrical was probably installed to code, but it was old and the fuse/breaker failed with the high power draw. Or actually thinking about it, the fuse/breaker might have worked but corrosion helped the current jump, heating things up, and creating the spark show/fire. I've seen those big fuses for these systems get corroded over time, and corrosion can really wreak havoc.

An HVAC person probably wouldn't check the electrical, so it's likely just a miss overall.

It's not really worth speculating what happened, because we'll never know for sure. But it is worth all of us taking a minute to do some cursory inspection of our electrical systems in our homes. Breakers are supposed to be exercised regularly (switched on and off), and fuses checked for corrosion. If anything is wrong, call an electrician before things get to this point.

Things like this are terrible, but nobody was injured and material things can be replaced. It's a great reminder for all of us, and if it can prevent future disaster, it could end up turning a negative into a positive.

If you can't tell, electrical and fires scare the shit out of me.

[Tar]

At the end of the day, whoever installed the aux/emergency system should have refused to connect it the way they did. Retrofit installs require an electrical inspection, and they would red flag the wiring/electrical panel and that would need to be changed out with new 100/200 amp service. Expensive? Maybe, but not as expensive as a house fire or loss of life. Rudy's family was at risk and that's unacceptable, LL at fault if anything happened to them.

My guess is the electrical was probably installed to code, but it was old and the fuse/breaker failed with the high power draw. Or actually thinking about it, the fuse/breaker might have worked but corrosion helped the current jump, heating things up, and creating the spark show/fire. I've seen those big fuses for these systems get corroded over time, and corrosion can really wreak havoc.

An HVAC person probably wouldn't check the electrical, so it's likely just a miss overall.

It's not really worth speculating what happened, because we'll never know for sure. But it is worth all of us taking a minute to do some cursory inspection of our electrical systems in our homes. Breakers are supposed to be exercised regularly (switched on and off), and fuses checked for corrosion. If anything is wrong, call an electrician before things get to this point.

Things like this are terrible, but nobody was injured and material things can be replaced. It's a great reminder for all of us, and if it can prevent future disaster, it could end up turning a negative into a positive.

If you can't tell, electrical and fires scare the shit out of me.

Definitely a great learning opportunity, I'm going to take time to check the dryer vents and put timers on my bathroom fans personally. Exercising the breakers is a great idea and simple to do.

But the HVAC person installing this system would likely wire it to the panel wouldn't they? It doesn't just plug into a wall outlet does it? If so, then they need to select a breaker/fuse that's suitable so I'm thinking that there's something suspicious here, aside from corroded fuses which also should have been noted.

I get worked up about the integrity of this circuit because it just shouldn't be catching fire like this. That's not a standard I can accept personally.

[ChrisoftheNorth]

My guess is the electrical was probably installed to code, but it was old and the fuse/breaker failed with the high power draw. Or actually thinking about it, the fuse/breaker might have worked but corrosion helped the current jump, heating things up, and creating the spark show/fire. I've seen those big fuses for these systems get corroded over time, and corrosion can really wreak havoc.

An HVAC person probably wouldn't check the electrical, so it's likely just a miss overall.

It's not really worth speculating what happened, because we'll never know for sure. But it is worth all of us taking a minute to do some cursory inspection of our electrical systems in our homes. Breakers are supposed to be exercised regularly (switched on and off), and fuses checked for corrosion. If anything is wrong, call an electrician before things get to this point.

Things like this are terrible, but nobody was injured and material things can be replaced. It's a great reminder for all of us, and if it can prevent future disaster, it could end up turning a negative into a positive.

If you can't tell, electrical and fires scare the shit out of me.

Definitely a great learning opportunity, I'm going to take time to check the dryer vents and put timers on my bathroom fans personally. Exercising the breakers is a great idea and simple to do.

But the HVAC person installing this system would likely wire it to the panel wouldn't they? It doesn't just plug into a wall outlet does it? If so, then they need to select a breaker/fuse that's suitable so I'm thinking that there's something suspicious here, aside from corroded fuses which also should have been noted.

I get worked up about the integrity of this circuit because it just shouldn't be catching fire like this. That's not a standard I can accept personally.

As Brad rightly pointed out, I don't know shit about these heat pump systems in the south.

But for me personally, I wouldn't trust an HVAC company to install or inspect the electrical. The two HVAC companies I've worked with to install mini splits contracted certified/licensed electricians to do all the electric, a separate electrical permit was pulled, so the electrical work was inspected and certified. They worked together to size all the work, and that's really the only way I'd be comfortable with an installation like this.

But most importantly, it could have been installed properly back in the day, but ignored and left to degrade over time. I still wouldn't trust an HVAC person to do a proper electrical inspection, but a home owner/tenant can easily see if there's a fuse/breaker present, and take a peek to make sure they're working properly. Work the breaker, or pull the fuse and look for corrosion. If there's nothing there, I'd call an electrician to make sure everything is up to snuff.

[golftdibrad1]

Interesting. So why the spark show fire then? Faulty electrical? Even more to me if this is an intended use for the system. But to your point, perhaps the LL deserves a bit of slack then.

Makes sense for an entire house to have this sort of Aux system to help the heat pump if that's the only heat source.

Since I don't know the specifics of the instillation and am making broad generalizations about the type of HVAC unit this probably was, I cant say for certain. But Hey I've been basing this off educated guesses so far so I will continue.

It was probably a basic resistance electrical heater. So those guys pull a legit SHITLOAD of amps. Therefore the circuit breaker might not trip if a singular heating coil were to break, fall, and start grounding out to the casing creating the show of sparks our good i-Trud witnessed. Those sparks are white hot, not all that dissimilar to welding slag. A couple of those find some saw dust, actual dust (it is an air handler afeferall) combined with being literally fanned on from the HVAC fan... there is your fire.

This is a relatively common cause of house fires.
https://mahleairconditioning.com/dirty- ... re-hazard/