DFD

Davestr wrote: ↑Tue Jan 02, 2018 1:44 pm

max225 wrote: ↑Tue Jan 02, 2018 1:07 pm

You guys will be super short on them for a bit... especially with Norway taking up most of the Euro supply.

I am starting to see them daily... but we're in the Mecca of autonomous and the electric car.

I see Model S daily and a few X models weekly now. Those models have been out for sometime now. Looking forward to seeing the first Mod-3, maybe summer......

max225 wrote: ↑Tue Jan 02, 2018 1:50 pm

Davestr wrote: ↑Tue Jan 02, 2018 1:44 pm

I see Model S daily and a few X models weekly now. Those models have been out for sometime now. Looking forward to seeing the first Mod-3, maybe summer......

Supposedly they will make 5-10x as many model 3s are the other models. But that remains to be seen really...
It is already 2018... and the car has been out since... "october"? ! This car is surely "SLOW" to hit the market. I believe they still make less 3's than S's

Some Tesla hate is justified, but their owners truly love them.
I think they are remarkable cars, panel gaps be damned. There is not a single other vehicle that comes close. Bolt is the only "ugly" competitor, and it seems to be a great car as well. I don't understand why GM hasn't made a cadillac that is better than a Tesla, they are surely capable.

Desertbreh wrote: ↑Tue Jan 02, 2018 2:02 pm Some guy in a 100D left me searching for my doors in the weeds at a stoplight just yesterday. Forgot to chase him down and laugh at him for his panel gaps doe.

It is a good point that dbest makes....I can live with panel gaps but if my leather interior is shitting the bed like a five year old Hyundai on a 100K car, that would embitter me.

max225 wrote: ↑Tue Jan 02, 2018 2:05 pm

Desertbreh wrote: ↑Tue Jan 02, 2018 2:02 pm Some guy in a 100D left me searching for my doors in the weeds at a stoplight just yesterday. Forgot to chase him down and laugh at him for his panel gaps doe.

It is a good point that dbest makes....I can live with panel gaps but if my leather interior is shitting the bed like a five year old Hyundai on a 100K car, that would embitter me.

They are fine with higher mileage as well. As with all cars they age. They are not inferior to Hyundai in terms of interior quality. Maybe MB/Porsche as they play in that price-range. But they are not terrible, certainly not class leading doe.

What is surprising is how well their "tech" held up. Their center screen is still class leading, and that thing has been out since 2012, which is an eternity for automotive infotainment. It is essentially a copy of Ios. Works super crisp etc.

Desertbreh wrote: ↑Tue Jan 02, 2018 2:14 pm

max225 wrote: ↑Tue Jan 02, 2018 2:05 pm

They are fine with higher mileage as well. As with all cars they age. They are not inferior to Hyundai in terms of interior quality. Maybe MB/Porsche as they play in that price-range. But they are not terrible, certainly not class leading doe.

What is surprising is how well their "tech" held up. Their center screen is still class leading, and that thing has been out since 2012, which is an eternity for automotive infotainment. It is essentially a copy of Ios. Works super crisp etc.

I'd be curious as to what the issues on high mileage Model S is, and also what the highest mileage Model S actually is......

I'm impressed at the random elitist locations I find Tesla Superchargers....Guadalupe Valley in Northern Baja, at this winery.......https://montexanic.com.mx/.......two superchargers right in front of the main entrance.

Detroit wrote: ↑Wed Jan 03, 2018 6:23 am I have a few friends in CA that have Model S's...one dude since they came out...so going on 5 years?

He said it's the worst car he's ever owned...little shit just won't stay fixed. TPMS, the door handles biting him, he's been through a few drive units now, electrical gremlins, etc.

But he's because he's super and expected it. And therein lies the problem. Tesla has solid reliability scores because the people that buy them are like my buddy and willing to dismiss a lot of the issues because they expect it being early adopters. I'm sure the Model 3 will be better from lessons learned, but it'll still use customers as beta testers. Are they willing to put up with that because of the brand halo? We'll see...

Big Brain Bradley wrote: ↑Wed Jan 03, 2018 7:55 am

Detroit wrote: ↑Wed Jan 03, 2018 6:23 am I have a few friends in CA that have Model S's...one dude since they came out...so going on 5 years?

He said it's the worst car he's ever owned...little shit just won't stay fixed. TPMS, the door handles biting him, he's been through a few drive units now, electrical gremlins, etc.

But he's because he's super and expected it. And therein lies the problem. Tesla has solid reliability scores because the people that buy them are like my buddy and willing to dismiss a lot of the issues because they expect it being early adopters. I'm sure the Model 3 will be better from lessons learned, but it'll still use customers as beta testers. Are they willing to put up with that because of the brand halo? We'll see...

they are in the rare situation where they have brand loyalty for no real reason and are using it to their advantage. I bet the customer service is outstanding too. All those little/big issues can be when the manufacture takes care of you and does not try to get out of their own warranty like the big bois.

Big Brain Bradley wrote: ↑Wed Jan 03, 2018 7:55 am

Detroit wrote: ↑Wed Jan 03, 2018 6:23 am I have a few friends in CA that have Model S's...one dude since they came out...so going on 5 years?

He said it's the worst car he's ever owned...little shit just won't stay fixed. TPMS, the door handles biting him, he's been through a few drive units now, electrical gremlins, etc.

But he's because he's super and expected it. And therein lies the problem. Tesla has solid reliability scores because the people that buy them are like my buddy and willing to dismiss a lot of the issues because they expect it being early adopters. I'm sure the Model 3 will be better from lessons learned, but it'll still use customers as beta testers. Are they willing to put up with that because of the brand halo? We'll see...

they are in the rare situation where they have brand loyalty for no real reason and are using it to their advantage. I bet the customer service is outstanding too. All those little/big issues can be when the manufacture takes care of you and does not try to get out of their own warranty like the big bois.

Detroit wrote: ↑Wed Jan 03, 2018 10:01 am My buddy said service was great at the beginning, but degraded significantly as more vehicles were sold. He said he often has to wait a month plus to get in for service now, regardless of what's wrong with the car. He thinks with more service centers, it would get better. Which Tesla has said they're going to build, so it'll probably be a non-issue.

The real issue won't be to the customer, but to the company. Warranty repairs are expensive. It's part of why initial quality is so important.

coogles wrote: ↑Wed Jan 03, 2018 11:11 am

Detroit wrote: ↑Wed Jan 03, 2018 10:01 am My buddy said service was great at the beginning, but degraded significantly as more vehicles were sold. He said he often has to wait a month plus to get in for service now, regardless of what's wrong with the car. He thinks with more service centers, it would get better. Which Tesla has said they're going to build, so it'll probably be a non-issue.

The real issue won't be to the customer, but to the company. Warranty repairs are expensive. It's part of why initial quality is so important.

Personally I love the idea, but I hate the futuristic theme of the whole interior. Give me a regular C300/A4/3-series with an all electric powertrain and as few gimmicks as possible, maybe I'd be interested someday. But the huge in-your-face screen and gaudy interiors are just a huge turn-off.

Detroit wrote: ↑Wed Jan 03, 2018 6:23 am I have a few friends in CA that have Model S's...one dude since they came out...so going on 5 years?

He said it's the worst car he's ever owned...little shit just won't stay fixed. TPMS, the door handles biting him, he's been through a few drive units now, electrical gremlins, etc.

But he's because he's super and expected it. And therein lies the problem. Tesla has solid reliability scores because the people that buy them are like my buddy and willing to dismiss a lot of the issues because they expect it being early adopters. I'm sure the Model 3 will be better from lessons learned, but it'll still use customers as beta testers. Are they willing to put up with that because of the brand halo? We'll see...

Desertbreh wrote: ↑Wed Jan 03, 2018 1:46 pm

Detroit wrote: ↑Wed Jan 03, 2018 6:23 am I have a few friends in CA that have Model S's...one dude since they came out...so going on 5 years?

He said it's the worst car he's ever owned...little shit just won't stay fixed. TPMS, the door handles biting him, he's been through a few drive units now, electrical gremlins, etc.

But he's because he's super and expected it. And therein lies the problem. Tesla has solid reliability scores because the people that buy them are like my buddy and willing to dismiss a lot of the issues because they expect it being early adopters. I'm sure the Model 3 will be better from lessons learned, but it'll still use customers as beta testers. Are they willing to put up with that because of the brand halo? We'll see...

Ludicrous mode doesn't hurt. Around town, these things are stoplight heroes against anything less than AWD Porsche Turbos or Doge Demons.

Detroit wrote: ↑Wed Jan 03, 2018 1:55 pm

Desertbreh wrote: ↑Wed Jan 03, 2018 1:46 pm

Ludicrous mode doesn't hurt. Around town, these things are stoplight heroes against anything less than AWD Porsche Turbos or Doge Demons.

Model 3 doesn't have that, doe.

Detroit wrote: ↑Wed Jan 03, 2018 1:55 pm

Desertbreh wrote: ↑Wed Jan 03, 2018 1:46 pm

Ludicrous mode doesn't hurt. Around town, these things are stoplight heroes against anything less than AWD Porsche Turbos or Doge Demons.

Model 3 doesn't have that, doe.

max225 wrote: ↑Wed Jan 03, 2018 2:10 pm The hate from Detroit (pun not intended) makes some sense, you got a company that is held to different standards. They have to employ ppl that make 2x as much as the average in Detroit... They are doing it in the most expensive area in the country in terms of real estate, which makes little sense. And Detroit hasn't been able to catch up with Tesla because they would burn through so much cash that their investors will FK em up... Tesla is not expected to make money doe...

However, one could wonder what would happen if Detroit went and built a electric car that is better than Tesla. I know they can... FK the balance sheet, shouldwould they be rewarded ? that's the real question here.

Desertbreh wrote: ↑Wed Jan 03, 2018 2:17 pm

Detroit wrote: ↑Wed Jan 03, 2018 1:55 pm
Model 3 doesn't have that, doe.

Yeah I'm not buying a Model 3. The ONLY thing that makes a model S worth buying IMHO is the blazing acceleration. It's a tired design now, other cars have nicer interiors and handle better, and I give zero fucks about whatever Pay Area cachet is attached to them. They are too expensive to make the gas savings attractive. Drop dat hammer doe.

Detroit wrote: ↑Wed Jan 03, 2018 2:18 pm

max225 wrote: ↑Wed Jan 03, 2018 2:10 pm The hate from Detroit (pun not intended) makes some sense, you got a company that is held to different standards. They have to employ ppl that make 2x as much as the average in Detroit... They are doing it in the most expensive area in the country in terms of real estate, which makes little sense. And Detroit hasn't been able to catch up with Tesla because they would burn through so much cash that their investors will FK em up... Tesla is not expected to make money doe...

However, one could wonder what would happen if Detroit went and built a electric car that is better than Tesla. I know they can... FK the balance sheet, shouldwould they be rewarded ? that's the real question here.

Indeed. That really is the question. I think a lot of Tesla's success is the FU attitude. People want to be part of something new...something different. Tesla represents a fresh take on a dinosaur industry. If Detroit were to produce something awesome, would anyone actually buy it?

Detroit wrote: ↑Wed Jan 03, 2018 2:18 pm

max225 wrote: ↑Wed Jan 03, 2018 2:10 pm The hate from Detroit (pun not intended) makes some sense, you got a company that is held to different standards. They have to employ ppl that make 2x as much as the average in Detroit... They are doing it in the most expensive area in the country in terms of real estate, which makes little sense. And Detroit hasn't been able to catch up with Tesla because they would burn through so much cash that their investors will FK em up... Tesla is not expected to make money doe...

However, one could wonder what would happen if Detroit went and built a electric car that is better than Tesla. I know they can... FK the balance sheet, shouldwould they be rewarded ? that's the real question here.

Indeed. That really is the question. I think a lot of Tesla's success is the FU attitude. People want to be part of something new...something different. Tesla represents a fresh take on a dinosaur industry. If Detroit were to produce something awesome, would anyone actually buy it?

max225 wrote: ↑Wed Jan 03, 2018 2:20 pm

Detroit wrote: ↑Wed Jan 03, 2018 2:18 pm
Indeed. That really is the question. I think a lot of Tesla's success is the FU attitude. People want to be part of something new...something different. Tesla represents a fresh take on a dinosaur industry. If Detroit were to produce something awesome, would anyone actually buy it?

Even the "shitty" bolt is outselling the Tesla models here, but I am pretty sure it is a money-losing proposition. Now imagine if GM actually styled it nicely... and put a few extra Bs of RD into it.

Apex wrote: ↑Wed Jan 03, 2018 2:21 pm

Detroit wrote: ↑Wed Jan 03, 2018 2:18 pm
Indeed. That really is the question. I think a lot of Tesla's success is the FU attitude. People want to be part of something new...something different. Tesla represents a fresh take on a dinosaur industry. If Detroit were to produce something awesome, would anyone actually buy it?

IMO, Detroit would also get crucified in the market at the first quarter earnings report if they went into EV to combat Tesla.

Apex wrote: ↑Wed Jan 03, 2018 2:21 pm

Detroit wrote: ↑Wed Jan 03, 2018 2:18 pm
Indeed. That really is the question. I think a lot of Tesla's success is the FU attitude. People want to be part of something new...something different. Tesla represents a fresh take on a dinosaur industry. If Detroit were to produce something awesome, would anyone actually buy it?

IMO, Detroit would also get crucified in the market at the first quarter earnings report if they went into EV to combat Tesla.

Detroit wrote: ↑Wed Jan 03, 2018 2:21 pm

max225 wrote: ↑Wed Jan 03, 2018 2:20 pm
Even the "shitty" bolt is outselling the Tesla models here, but I am pretty sure it is a money-losing proposition. Now imagine if GM actually styled it nicely... and put a few extra Bs of RD into it.

We'll find out sooner than you think...