Car Talk 6: Best of times and Worst of Times

[ChrisoftheNorth]

Recently I sort of have the Corvette wants again as well

That's a virus that never goes away. Corvaids?

Every time I see a C7... Want

[D Griff]

My beef is primarily with sport versions that take away a number of your + items. All of which I agree with BTW.

The ship has sailed, these are the future for all those reasons. People have spoken, and once again I'm

Are you as you've joined the masses in the SUVs ? seems like you're :right: as you're appreciating the very aspects that make them great.

4R, many Wronglers, etc.

I agree with Chris though, I think I like my stupid more than a pedestrian CUV, but I'd probably trade it for a 500 HP CUV because factor.

[D Griff]

Recently I sort of have the Corvette wants again as well

That's a virus that never goes away. Corvaids?

Every time I see a C7... Want

I'm sure I'll own another one day. If they offered a in the C8 I would probably be hard core aspiring to own one. It's basically a reliable Ferrari 458 that no one will care about all that much (which is somewhat a benefit in my book).

[ChrisoftheNorth]

Are you as you've joined the masses in the SUVs ? seems like you're :right: as you're appreciating the very aspects that make them great.

4R, many Wronglers, etc.

I agree with Chris though, I think I like my stupid more than a pedestrian CUV, but I'd probably trade it for a 500 HP CUV because factor.

They're just one trick ponys. I drove some SRTs and TH WKs when I worked at Stellanus, and the things were loud and but got horrific MPG, were pretty rough over bad roads (an intern DESTROYED the wheel on an SRT hitting a pothole), and just made the entire thing feel I guess it's because of what it is, but overall I have zero interest in owning one. I'd much rather have the 4R and an actual sporty car.

Even a 392 Wrangler is almost too sketchy to be fun. My LT1 powered CJ7 was a deathtrap. SUVs are best for ZFG driving IMO.

[ChrisoftheNorth]

That's a virus that never goes away. Corvaids?

Every time I see a C7... Want

I'm sure I'll own another one day. If they offered a in the C8 I would probably be hard core aspiring to own one. It's basically a reliable Ferrari 458 that no one will care about all that much (which is somewhat a benefit in my book).

For some reason, I just don't get that into C8's. I think they're over-styled, and not in a good way. The tech is cool and the MR layout obviously is but for me, pinnacle Corvette is the C7. A C7 GS in Sebring Whorange

[D Griff]

I'm sure I'll own another one day. If they offered a in the C8 I would probably be hard core aspiring to own one. It's basically a reliable Ferrari 458 that no one will care about all that much (which is somewhat a benefit in my book).

For some reason, I just don't get that into C8's. I think they're over-styled, and not in a good way. The tech is cool and the MR layout obviously is but for me, pinnacle Corvette is the C7. A C7 GS in Sebring Whorange

I agree that the C7 looks better. C8 looks cool/fine but it’s certainly not high in my hierarchy of Corvettes from a styling perspective. I do covet mid engine though, and I don’t think I’m rich enough to ever own a Porsche. Not really any other options out there, I should’ve bought a Lotus a few years ago.

[ChrisoftheNorth]

For some reason, I just don't get that into C8's. I think they're over-styled, and not in a good way. The tech is cool and the MR layout obviously is but for me, pinnacle Corvette is the C7. A C7 GS in Sebring Whorange

I agree that the C7 looks better. C8 looks cool/fine but it’s certainly not high in my hierarchy of Corvettes from a styling perspective. I do covet mid engine though, and I don’t think I’m rich enough to ever own a Porsche. Not really any other options out there, I should’ve bought a Lotus a few years ago.

C7 is mid engine though (just in the front )

But seriously, I think C5-7 vettes are incredibly well balanced handlers because of how far back the engine is. Mid engine rear just helps put more power down in this case. Corvettes don't need more power, mine was basically stock C6 LS3 power, and it was ample. I've driven a number of C7s and feel they're incredibly well balanced with handling and power.

But obviously, the engine in the rear has more at Cars and Coffee.

[D Griff]

I agree that the C7 looks better. C8 looks cool/fine but it’s certainly not high in my hierarchy of Corvettes from a styling perspective. I do covet mid engine though, and I don’t think I’m rich enough to ever own a Porsche. Not really any other options out there, I should’ve bought a Lotus a few years ago.

C7 is mid engine though (just in the front )

But seriously, I think C5-7 vettes are incredibly well balanced handlers because of how far back the engine is. Mid engine rear just helps put more power down in this case. Corvettes don't need more power, mine was basically stock C6 LS3 power, and it was ample. I've driven a number of C7s and feel they're incredibly well balanced with handling and power.

But obviously, the engine in the rear has more at Cars and Coffee.

For me it's more trying something new. I have like 25 days of track experience in the C5. A C7 is just a nicer version of the same thing. Engine behind me would be a new challenge to learn, a new dance partner if you will. I drove an Elise on track and a Cayman on canyon roads and both were pretty amazing, but I really don't have the level of experience to know if it's for me or whatever. I may one day own a mid engine car and then go back and say the FR format is just as good. Even tracking the BMW a bit has been fun as it drives a little different than the C5, but it's more the same than not. It's basically just a slower version with a bit easier to control oversteer at the limit once it has a square set of tires on it.

From a measurable performance perspective, the front engine Corvettes are pretty nuts, I was faster than most in my POS C5. I find the mid engine Corvette desirable because it's the first mid engine that I could realistically own at some point - no insane maintenance schedules or need to keep miles off or any of the other from Porsches and Ferraris and stuff.

maybe I could get an Evora at some point, but I think the others are out.

[goIftdibrad]

I agree that the C7 looks better. C8 looks cool/fine but it’s certainly not high in my hierarchy of Corvettes from a styling perspective. I do covet mid engine though, and I don’t think I’m rich enough to ever own a Porsche. Not really any other options out there, I should’ve bought a Lotus a few years ago.

C7 is mid engine though (just in the front )

But seriously, I think C5-7 vettes are incredibly well balanced handlers because of how far back the engine is. Mid engine rear just helps put more power down in this case. Corvettes don't need more power, mine was basically stock C6 LS3 power, and it was ample. I've driven a number of C7s and feel they're incredibly well balanced with handling and power.

But obviously, the engine in the rear has more at Cars and Coffee.

re: vette: Gears made that car amazing. I loved driving Alan's, and setting FTD at the autox in it

People be telling me I should ls swap the miata, LOL NOPE. If I wanted a corvette....I'd buy one. Its a cool swap and all but a c5 or c6 with 4.10's that has enough interior removed to de-rattle trap it is basically like a miata x1.25

re: lotus: I just made this cmment myself the other night. I should have got an elise over beemer, id either still have it or made money on it vs loosing epic ass lol

[ChrisoftheNorth]

C7 is mid engine though (just in the front )

But seriously, I think C5-7 vettes are incredibly well balanced handlers because of how far back the engine is. Mid engine rear just helps put more power down in this case. Corvettes don't need more power, mine was basically stock C6 LS3 power, and it was ample. I've driven a number of C7s and feel they're incredibly well balanced with handling and power.

But obviously, the engine in the rear has more at Cars and Coffee.

re: vette: Gears made that car amazing. I loved driving Alan's, and setting FTD at the autox in it

People be telling me I should ls swap the miata, LOL NOPE. If I wanted a corvette....I'd buy one. Its a cool swap and all but a c5 or c6 with 4.10's that has enough interior removed to de-rattle trap it is basically like a miata x1.25

re: lotus: I just made this cmment myself the other night. I should have got an elise over beemer, id either still have it or made money on it vs loosing epic ass lol

I will never ever understand LS swapping Miatas. The cost is more than a C5, and the C5 still has the transmission in a better place.

But yea, C5s with 4.10's are just fantastic machines. Add in high flowing heads and a higher duration cam that likes to rev with the valvetrain to support 6,8-7k redline and it's like a different car. Supercar levels I imagine.

[ChrisoftheNorth]

C7 is mid engine though (just in the front )

But seriously, I think C5-7 vettes are incredibly well balanced handlers because of how far back the engine is. Mid engine rear just helps put more power down in this case. Corvettes don't need more power, mine was basically stock C6 LS3 power, and it was ample. I've driven a number of C7s and feel they're incredibly well balanced with handling and power.

But obviously, the engine in the rear has more at Cars and Coffee.

For me it's more trying something new. I have like 25 days of track experience in the C5. A C7 is just a nicer version of the same thing. Engine behind me would be a new challenge to learn, a new dance partner if you will. I drove an Elise on track and a Cayman on canyon roads and both were pretty amazing, but I really don't have the level of experience to know if it's for me or whatever. I may one day own a mid engine car and then go back and say the FR format is just as good. Even tracking the BMW a bit has been fun as it drives a little different than the C5, but it's more the same than not. It's basically just a slower version with a bit easier to control oversteer at the limit once it has a square set of tires on it.

From a measurable performance perspective, the front engine Corvettes are pretty nuts, I was faster than most in my POS C5. I find the mid engine Corvette desirable because it's the first mid engine that I could realistically own at some point - no insane maintenance schedules or need to keep miles off or any of the other from Porsches and Ferraris and stuff.

maybe I could get an Evora at some point, but I think the others are out.

Yea, I get that. An Evora would be the IMO.

[Tar]

That's a virus that never goes away. Corvaids?

Every time I see a C7... Want

I'm sure I'll own another one day. If they offered a in the C8 I would probably be hard core aspiring to own one. It's basically a reliable Ferrari 458 that no one will care about all that much (which is somewhat a benefit in my book).

If love that too. Aspiring for a mid-engine , but if that's not attainable then I'm good with a V8 with RWD. is not building V8s past this year, orders are at like 260 days.

[wap]

Max, have you considered an F Pace?

I feel like we’re not old enough to be jag owners but they are nice

Looks like you'd be in the 2nd biggest age demographic...
<t>How old are the F Pace owners?</t>
<t>18-29</t> Votes: 7 5.5%
<t>36-40</t> Votes: 12 9.4%
<t>30-35</t> Votes: 8 6.3%
<t>41-45</t> Votes: 19 15.0%
<t>46-50</t> Votes: 19 15.0%
<t>51-55</t> Votes: 23 18.1%
<t>56-60</t> Votes: 13 10.2%
<t>61-65</t> Votes: 12 9.4%
<t>66-70</t> Votes: 7 5.5%
<t>71- and above</t>Votes: 7 5.5%

From an F Pace forum so not exactly , but interesting

[max225]

I feel like we’re not old enough to be jag owners but they are nice

Looks like you'd be in the 2nd biggest age demographic...
<t>How old are the F Pace owners?</t>
<t>18-29</t> Votes: 7 5.5%
<t>36-40</t> Votes: 12 9.4%
<t>30-35</t> Votes: 8 6.3%
<t>41-45</t> Votes: 19 15.0%
<t>46-50</t> Votes: 19 15.0%
<t>51-55</t> Votes: 23 18.1%
<t>56-60</t> Votes: 13 10.2%
<t>61-65</t> Votes: 12 9.4%
<t>66-70</t> Votes: 7 5.5%
<t>71- and above</t>Votes: 7 5.5%

From an F Pace forum so not exactly , but interesting

am I missing....

only 20% of customers are under 40....
60% are over 50 and forums skew younger... Jags are piloted by

[wap]

:wat:
Looks like you'd be in the 2nd biggest age demographic...
<t>How old are the F Pace owners?</t>
<t>18-29</t> Votes: 7 5.5%
<t>36-40</t> Votes: 12 9.4%
<t>30-35</t> Votes: 8 6.3%
<t>41-45</t> Votes: 19 15.0%
<t>46-50</t> Votes: 19 15.0%
<t>51-55</t> Votes: 23 18.1%
<t>56-60</t> Votes: 13 10.2%
<t>61-65</t> Votes: 12 9.4%
<t>66-70</t> Votes: 7 5.5%
<t>71- and above</t>Votes: 7 5.5%

From an F Pace forum so not exactly :science: , but interesting

:wat: am I missing....

only 20% of customers are under 40....
60% are over 50

You said you didn't think you'd be old enough to own a Jag, implying that they're primarily owned by olds, yet the demographic chart I posted shows that you'd be in the second most common age demo.

Or did I misunderstand your comment?

[wap]

I thought you were already 40.

[max225]

I thought you were already 40.

still a bit away

[wap]

I thought you were already 40.

still a bit away

40's are fine. Don't sweat it when it comes.

[ChrisoftheNorth]

still a bit away

40's are fine. Don't sweat it when it comes.

I'm 3 years away, pretty much

The weird thing is in the last year I've started feeling old, so 40+ will be

[CaleDeRoo]

I can't afford the swap to 4.10s right now so if y'all could flip the narrative and say they're shit I'd appreciate it

[D Griff]

I can't afford the swap to 4.10s right now so if y'all could flip the narrative and say they're shit I'd appreciate it

I drove Alan's 4.10 equipped C5. It was terrible.





























that has to be one of the better mods to a C5, but also very expensive.

[wap]

40's are fine. Don't sweat it when it comes.

I'm 3 years away, pretty much

The weird thing is in the last year I've started feeling old, so 40+ will be

That may be more mental than physical for you, , sorry to say.

[goIftdibrad]

I can't afford the swap to 4.10s right now so if y'all could flip the narrative and say they're shit I'd appreciate it

Sorry to tell you my dude but its the best money you can spend on that plastic fantastic.

[CaleDeRoo]

I can't afford the swap to 4.10s right now so if y'all could flip the narrative and say they're shit I'd appreciate it

Sorry to tell you my dude but its the best money you can spend on that plastic fantastic.

Surprise clutch and ac compressor replacement sucked up the suspension+gears fund

[ChrisoftheNorth]

I can't afford the swap to 4.10s right now so if y'all could flip the narrative and say they're shit I'd appreciate it

I'll say this.

4.10's are the best mod you can do to a C5 in terms of fun driving.

BUT

They're expensive to do and notoriously difficult to set up properly. Alan sent his to the THE guy to set these diffs up and still ended up with gear whine. I took mine to a shop that "does these all the time" and it turned out fine, though there was still a bit more gear whine than stock. I bet if I hammered on the car more, the whine would have gotten louder, just as Alan's did. Shops have an easy out blaming "improper break-in" which is impossible to prove.

So, there's almost a guaranteed NVH hit (gear whine) and if the job is really borked, there could be long term durability issues if you drive it hard.