OT XXX: COVID Off Topic

[razr390]

So he had covid already, got the vaccine AFTER, and now has covid again (delta variant presumed?). What was his day to day lifestyle? I am sure that has to play a role in someone getting covid twice within 12-18 months.

I know of a few folks like this with similar questions. Most that I know that got it multiple times were in texas giving 0 fucks. (Sub 35 healthy and super active in the club/bar scene).

Yea… I got my Pfizer vaccine in May and I’ve been masking indoors or in crowded areas just as a courtesy. I don’t give a shit about perceptions. But there’s a taco truck I frequent and it’s in some hipster bar area here and literally 99.5% of people are mask-less and DGAF

[ChrisoftheNorth]

Anecdotal:

A friend I worked with told me that his roommate just went to the ER yesterday with COVID. Dude is 26, got COVID early on in the pandemic, got the Pfizer vaccine as soon as he could (3mos since 2nd shot), and got what's assumed the delta variant a week or so ago. He's an otherwise healthy, active kid. Scary.

So he had covid already, got the vaccine AFTER, and now has covid again (delta variant presumed?). What was his day to day lifestyle? I am sure that has to play a role in someone getting covid twice within 12-18 months.

So? The .gov seems to think everything is just fine and COVID is beat if you have the vaccine. This dude even has the "premium" Pfizer vaccine and still got it. Point is, the vaccine doesn't appear to be the savior that people and the .gov are making it out to be. It's important to be careful because even after everything, this dude is in the ER for the first time now after doing everything the .gov says.

[max225]

So he had covid already, got the vaccine AFTER, and now has covid again (delta variant presumed?). What was his day to day lifestyle? I am sure that has to play a role in someone getting covid twice within 12-18 months.

So? The .gov seems to think everything is just fine and COVID is beat if you have the vaccine. This dude even has the "premium" Pfizer vaccine and still got it. Point is, the vaccine doesn't appear to be the savior that people and the .gov are making it out to be. It's important to be careful because even after everything, this dude is in the ER for the first time now after doing everything the .gov says.

Yep which is why I started bumping this thread weeks ago, to big pushback here.

[ChrisoftheNorth]

So? The .gov seems to think everything is just fine and COVID is beat if you have the vaccine. This dude even has the "premium" Pfizer vaccine and still got it. Point is, the vaccine doesn't appear to be the savior that people and the .gov are making it out to be. It's important to be careful because even after everything, this dude is in the ER for the first time now after doing everything the .gov says.

Yep which is why I started bumping this thread weeks ago, to big pushback here.

I'm glad you did. We went back to masking in public after reading your posts. Now this kid I heard of, this shit is far from over. I think we're being lied to about vaccine effectiveness so people don't go up in arms and completely stop getting vaccinated. This is going to get bad IMO.

[razr390]

So he had covid already, got the vaccine AFTER, and now has covid again (delta variant presumed?). What was his day to day lifestyle? I am sure that has to play a role in someone getting covid twice within 12-18 months.

So? The .gov seems to think everything is just fine and COVID is beat if you have the vaccine. This dude even has the "premium" Pfizer vaccine and still got it. Point is, the vaccine doesn't appear to be the savior that people and the .gov are making it out to be. It's important to be careful because even after everything, this dude is in the ER for the first time now after doing everything the .gov says.

I don’t understand your reply? My question was what exactly is his lifestyle/job that makes him more vulnerable to getting COVID twice? Even with the vaccine, if he was masking everywhere and staying home unless necessary he probably wouldn’t have gotten it? So I’m curious.

[razr390]

Yep which is why I started bumping this thread weeks ago, to big pushback here.

I'm glad you did. We went back to masking in public after reading your posts. Now this kid I heard of, this shit is far from over. I think we're being lied to about vaccine effectiveness so people don't go up in arms and completely stop getting vaccinated. This is going to get bad IMO.

I’ve been masking at work even after I’ve had the vaccine.

[max225]

Yep which is why I started bumping this thread weeks ago, to big pushback here.

I'm glad you did. We went back to masking in public after reading your posts. Now this kid I heard of, this shit is far from over. I think we're being lied to about vaccine effectiveness so people don't go up in arms and completely stop getting vaccinated. This is going to get bad IMO.

Yea unfortunately that is my theory as sell. Gov can't tell truth because anti vaxxers will get their hail mary. The issue is that the vaccines WERE incredibly effective which is why we opened... but when the cases started trending up we should have IMMEDIATELY stopped pretending like we beat it and acknowledge the issue.

But at this point the Pro Vacciner's are just as bad or worse than the anti maskers.

[troyguitar]

So he had covid already, got the vaccine AFTER, and now has covid again (delta variant presumed?). What was his day to day lifestyle? I am sure that has to play a role in someone getting covid twice within 12-18 months.

So? The .gov seems to think everything is just fine and COVID is beat if you have the vaccine. This dude even has the "premium" Pfizer vaccine and still got it. Point is, the vaccine doesn't appear to be the savior that people and the .gov are making it out to be. It's important to be careful because even after everything, this dude is in the ER for the first time now after doing everything the .gov says.

Having 80+% of the population vaccinated months ago was the (second) answer. We failed as usual.

[max225]

So? The .gov seems to think everything is just fine and COVID is beat if you have the vaccine. This dude even has the "premium" Pfizer vaccine and still got it. Point is, the vaccine doesn't appear to be the savior that people and the .gov are making it out to be. It's important to be careful because even after everything, this dude is in the ER for the first time now after doing everything the .gov says.

Having 80+% of the population vaccinated months ago was the (second) answer. We failed as usual.

This statement is incorrect. 80% would have helped if vaccines were effective against delta. They aren't.

[Tar]

Anecdotal:

A friend I worked with told me that his roommate just went to the ER yesterday with COVID. Dude is 26, got COVID early on in the pandemic, got the Pfizer vaccine as soon as he could (3mos since 2nd shot), and got what's assumed the delta variant a week or so ago. He's an otherwise healthy, active kid. Scary.

So how are we able to blame the anti-vaxxers with this type of mis-information floating around. Where's the local Truth Agent when you need one?!?

[razr390]

I'm glad you did. We went back to masking in public after reading your posts. Now this kid I heard of, this shit is far from over. I think we're being lied to about vaccine effectiveness so people don't go up in arms and completely stop getting vaccinated. This is going to get bad IMO.

Yea unfortunately that is my theory as sell. Gov can't tell truth because anti vaxxers will get their hail mary. The issue is that the vaccines WERE incredibly effective which is why we opened... but when the cases started trending up we should have IMMEDIATELY stopped pretending like we beat it and acknowledge the issue.

But at this point the Pro Vacciner's are just as bad or worse than the anti maskers.

It doesn’t help that the flip floppy nature of those in power (regardless of party) just corrodes any trust in public institutions

[Irish]

I was never pushing back about all of your statements Max. I was mildly disagreeing with a small number of things you said. If you look earlier in the thread I was very vocal about taking precautions and how I was directing my family on how to behave. We only just recently started eating out (3 times) and we just started instore shopping and what not.

Vaccines are more designed to keep us from serious illness, hospitalization and death than they are to keep us from getting Covid at all.

Most of the articles I am reading say that the Vaccines ARE effective at keeping people out of the hospital after getting Delta. Not 100% .... no vaccines are.

https://www.gov.uk/government/news/vacc ... ta-variant

https://www.forbes.com/sites/carlieport ... 0a74b480b5

That being said, I am very sorry to hear about your friends Dad and Chris's friend.

[Irish]

https://medical.mit.edu/covid-19-update ... eltas-here

Real-world data also shows that all three vaccines authorized for emergency use in the U.S., and similar vaccines in use elsewhere, protect fully vaccinated individuals against severe disease and death. (And, no, you still don’t need a booster.) An Associated Press analysis of CDC data from May revealed that infections in fully vaccinated people accounted for only about 0.1 percent of COVID-19 hospitalizations that month, and only about 150 of the more than 18,000 COVID-19 deaths (0.8 percent). Similarly, CDC Director Rochelle Walensky said at a July 1 White House briefing that preliminary data for the year to date suggests that about 99.5 percent of COVID-19 deaths in the U.S. occurred in unvaccinated people.

[max225]

I was never pushing back about all of your statements Max. I was mildly disagreeing with a small number of things you said. If you look earlier in the thread I was very vocal about taking precautions and how I was directing my family on how to behave. We only just recently started eating out (3 times) and we just started instore shopping and what not.

Vaccines are more designed to keep us from serious illness, hospitalization and death than they are to keep us from getting Covid at all.

Most of the articles I am reading say that the Vaccines ARE effective at keeping people out of the hospital after getting Delta. Not 100% .... no vaccines are.

https://www.gov.uk/government/news/vacc ... ta-variant

https://www.forbes.com/sites/carlieport ... 0a74b480b5

That being said, I am very sorry to hear about your friends Dad and Chris's friend.

Those are headlines. With no data provided. I went through it here ...
https://khub.net/web/phe-national/publi ... F479607266

And I don't see how they are determining effectiveness vs hospitalization. There should a clear definition of 2 groups of folks in the same age bracket. I.E vaccinated and not vaccinated... with a clearly determined time frame. Then there should be a compare and contrast how many have had the vaccine and ended up in the hospital vs those that haven't... This is not found in these data sets as far as I can tell. And this data is not yet available IMO. As the Delta surge is NEW. It will take 2-3 months for us to have good hospitalization data. Frankly I don't see how anyone with a damn stat degree can even make a statement like that period.

There is also the variable of the delta being far more infectious and far less deadly. So it is almost like we can't use prior data because the virus mutated and it may skew the numbers.

My point was that vaccines are no longer effective preventing from INFECTION. I have not yet made any sort of statement on hospitalization or death, other than deaths follow infection, at which rates is TBD. Because frankly I have not seen any data with this regard. It does not yet exist, or it exists in such small numbers that it is not conclusive.

[max225]

https://medical.mit.edu/covid-19-update ... eltas-here

Real-world data also shows that all three vaccines authorized for emergency use in the U.S., and similar vaccines in use elsewhere, protect fully vaccinated individuals against severe disease and death. (And, no, you still don’t need a booster.) An Associated Press analysis of CDC data from May revealed that infections in fully vaccinated people accounted for only about 0.1 percent of COVID-19 hospitalizations that month, and only about 150 of the more than 18,000 COVID-19 deaths (0.8 percent). Similarly, CDC Director Rochelle Walensky said at a July 1 White House briefing that preliminary data for the year to date suggests that about 99.5 percent of COVID-19 deaths in the U.S. occurred in unvaccinated people.

DUDE... once again. May is OLD NEWS. May data is not yet DELTA DATA. June is the first DELTA MONTH in the US. Also everyone who is hospitalized in MAY got covid in April. You have to keep time lines in mind. This is not the proper way to look at the data TODAY. Yes in MAY this was correct but it is irrelevant for June/July/Projections.

And that 99.5% covid deaths in unvaccinated is frankly an offensive data point. Anyone that quotes it in support of vaccines as proof of prevention of death is an absolute imbecile, especially with delta in mind. It is exactly what I was stating earlier. 90+% of the deaths occurred BEFORE PEOPLE COULD BE VACCINATED. Which has nothing to do with the effectiveness of the vaccine.

[Irish]

https://medical.mit.edu/covid-19-update ... eltas-here

Real-world data also shows that all three vaccines authorized for emergency use in the U.S., and similar vaccines in use elsewhere, protect fully vaccinated individuals against severe disease and death. (And, no, you still don’t need a booster.) An Associated Press analysis of CDC data from May revealed that infections in fully vaccinated people accounted for only about 0.1 percent of COVID-19 hospitalizations that month, and only about 150 of the more than 18,000 COVID-19 deaths (0.8 percent). Similarly, CDC Director Rochelle Walensky said at a July 1 White House briefing that preliminary data for the year to date suggests that about 99.5 percent of COVID-19 deaths in the U.S. occurred in unvaccinated people.

DUDE... once again. May is OLD NEWS. May data is not yet DELTA DATA. June is the first DELTA MONTH in the US. Also everyone who is hospitalized in MAY got covid in April. You have to keep time lines in mind. This is not the proper way to look at the data TODAY. Yes in MAY this was correct but it is irrelevant for June/July/Projections.

Yes, after I posted this I realized that its was outdated relative to Delta.

[max225]

Also CDC about to make a mask announcement at 3pm EST. Unacceptably slow and politicized move.

[troyguitar]

Having 80+% of the population vaccinated months ago was the (second) answer. We failed as usual.

This statement is incorrect. 80% would have helped if vaccines were effective against delta. They aren't.

That variant shouldn't exist here.

[razr390]

This statement is incorrect. 80% would have helped if vaccines were effective against delta. They aren't.

That variant shouldn't exist here.

So you are okay with shutting down borders? Very un-left of you.

[Apex]

That variant shouldn't exist here.

So you are okay with shutting down borders? Very un-left of you.

It’s only a crisis of the un-vaccinated. Anyone coming to the US who will vote Democrat is always welcome.

[Desertbreh]

I'm glad you did. We went back to masking in public after reading your posts. Now this kid I heard of, this shit is far from over. I think we're being lied to about vaccine effectiveness so people don't go up in arms and completely stop getting vaccinated. This is going to get bad IMO.

Yea unfortunately that is my theory as sell. Gov can't tell truth because anti vaxxers will get their hail mary. The issue is that the vaccines WERE incredibly effective which is why we opened... but when the cases started trending up we should have IMMEDIATELY stopped pretending like we beat it and acknowledge the issue.

But at this point the Pro Vacciner's are just as bad or worse than the anti maskers.

THIS. I DID WHAT I WAS SUPPOSED TO. THE .GOV SAVED US. I AM ENTITLED TO MY JUST DESSERTS. HANDS OVER EARS MAKING LOUD NOISES TO DROWND OUT THE SOUND OF YOU PISSING IN MY CHEERIOS WITH YOUR REAL TALK.

[ChrisoftheNorth]

That variant shouldn't exist here.

So you are okay with shutting down borders? Very un-left of you.

His point was more if we had higher vaccination rates, the delta wouldn't be that big of a deal. That's what was being communicated when the vaccines hit, that ~80% would reduce variant risk because people wouldn't be letting it go unchecked raw dogging it.

[ChrisoftheNorth]

Yea unfortunately that is my theory as sell. Gov can't tell truth because anti vaxxers will get their hail mary. The issue is that the vaccines WERE incredibly effective which is why we opened... but when the cases started trending up we should have IMMEDIATELY stopped pretending like we beat it and acknowledge the issue.

But at this point the Pro Vacciner's are just as bad or worse than the anti maskers.

THIS. I DID WHAT I WAS SUPPOSED TO. THE .GOV SAVED US. I AM ENTITLED TO MY JUST DESSERTS. HANDS OVER EARS MAKING LOUD NOISES TO DROWND OUT THE SOUND OF YOU PISSING IN MY CHEERIOS WITH YOUR REAL TALK.

[Irish]

https://medical.mit.edu/covid-19-update ... eltas-here

Real-world data also shows that all three vaccines authorized for emergency use in the U.S., and similar vaccines in use elsewhere, protect fully vaccinated individuals against severe disease and death. (And, no, you still don’t need a booster.) An Associated Press analysis of CDC data from May revealed that infections in fully vaccinated people accounted for only about 0.1 percent of COVID-19 hospitalizations that month, and only about 150 of the more than 18,000 COVID-19 deaths (0.8 percent). Similarly, CDC Director Rochelle Walensky said at a July 1 White House briefing that preliminary data for the year to date suggests that about 99.5 percent of COVID-19 deaths in the U.S. occurred in unvaccinated people.

DUDE... once again. May is OLD NEWS. May data is not yet DELTA DATA. June is the first DELTA MONTH in the US. Also everyone who is hospitalized in MAY got covid in April. You have to keep time lines in mind. This is not the proper way to look at the data TODAY. Yes in MAY this was correct but it is irrelevant for June/July/Projections.

And that 99.5% covid deaths in unvaccinated is frankly an offensive data point. Anyone that quotes it in support of vaccines as proof of prevention of death is an absolute imbecile, especially with delta in mind. It is exactly what I was stating earlier. 90+% of the deaths occurred BEFORE PEOPLE COULD BE VACCINATED. Which has nothing to do with the effectiveness of the vaccine.

I cant argue with this..... (I am not really arguing in the first place). But we are both limited by the available older data. So your statements/conclusions are just as limited.

I am not saying you are But we don't know yet.

Having 80+% of the population vaccinated months ago was the (second) answer. We failed as usual.

This statement is incorrect. 80% would have helped if vaccines were effective against delta. They aren't.

If 80% of the population had been vaccinated perhaps we would have achieved herd immunity before Delta and all the numbers would have been greatly lowered. Or perhaps Delta would still have broke through in serious numbers. Like you said, We don't know.

By the same reasoning, We also don't know if the Vaccines are effective against Delta, yet.

[ChrisoftheNorth]

The only thing we do know is delta seems to be one bad mamma jamma regardless of vaccine state. Awesome. Glad I didn't throw away the masks yet.