...because driving on public roads is all about whatever puts down the fastest lap times?Davestr wrote: ↑Wed Oct 18, 2017 12:26 amMany bro's need to get a life and stfu about your personal decision. Over 70% of M2's sold here have DCT. If you want to put power down/maximize performance manual's are an utter waste of energy. This is my first DCT. Manual's are not really on my radar anymore. Maybe for a Civic-Si etc/go box.
Thats not the point. In strict engineering terms power is applied more efficiently. For track use it certainly would make a difference. 77% of the M2's sold here dont have a manual. Simple fact.troyguitar wrote: ↑Wed Oct 18, 2017 12:45 am...because driving on public roads is all about whatever puts down the fastest lap times?Davestr wrote: ↑Wed Oct 18, 2017 12:26 am
Many bro's need to get a life and stfu about your personal decision. Over 70% of M2's sold here have DCT. If you want to put power down/maximize performance manual's are an utter waste of energy. This is my first DCT. Manual's are not really on my radar anymore. Maybe for a Civic-Si etc/go box.
OK Goose.
Justin Beiber outsells Pavarotti, is he a better singer?Davestr wrote: ↑Wed Oct 18, 2017 1:43 amThats not the point. In strict engineering terms power is applied more efficiently. For track use it certainly would make a difference. 77% of the M2's sold here dont have a manual. Simple fact.troyguitar wrote: ↑Wed Oct 18, 2017 12:45 am
...because driving on public roads is all about whatever puts down the fastest lap times?
OK Goose.
is the number one selling vehicle of all time. Simple fact indeed. This is not a slam on manuals Troy. Here you can use the power in certain places in public and its well known to you. Move on. Its a different driving environment and market. Simple. Your argument in useless. Thanks for playing. Take your complimentary board game and exit stage left.troyguitar wrote: ↑Wed Oct 18, 2017 2:01 amJustin Beiber outsells Pavarotti, is he a better singer?
Hell, the
Davestr wrote: ↑Wed Oct 18, 2017 2:39 amThis is not a slam on manuals Troy. Here you can use the power in certain placed in public and its well known to you. Move on. Its a different driving environment and market. Simple. Your argument in useless. Thanks for playing. Take your complimentary board game and exit stage left.troyguitar wrote: ↑Wed Oct 18, 2017 2:01 am
Justin Beiber outsells Pavarotti, is he a better singer?
Hell, the
Davestr wrote: ↑Wed Oct 18, 2017 2:39 amThis is not a slam on manuals Troy. Here you can use the power in certain placed in public and its well known to you. Move on. Its a different driving environment and market. Simple. Your argument in useless. Thanks for playing. Take your complimentary board game and exit stage left.troyguitar wrote: ↑Wed Oct 18, 2017 2:01 am
Justin Beiber outsells Pavarotti, is he a better singer?
Hell, the
POTD 
Counter argument to "driver involvement" - some shift schedules are utter garbage and slow to react to driving situations. IE driving in NYC, I don't need to be in 8th gear w/ the TC clutch engaged at 25 mph. I need be able to accelerate quickly depending on traffic conditions. Instead I stomp the accelerator pedal, wait, tc clutch disengages, wait some more, downshift to 7th, wait - that's not the right gear either, drop to 5th or 4th and finally accelerate as intended.Johnny_P wrote: ↑Wed Oct 18, 2017 8:48 am The ONLY reason to buy manuel anymore is for "driving involvement."
That's it. The automatics are faster, more economical, have better resale in most cases, and are a no-cost option on many cars anymore. Gone are the days when the 5-speed manual was the pick in the small car world where the other option was a 4 or 3 speed auto that would slow the car down by about 1.5-2 seconds 0-60 and get worse fuel economy and cost an extra $1k on top of it all.
I even think my STI would be better with a dual clutch. It would be a hell of a lot faster if it didn't lose turbo pressure between shifts, and the rest of the car is so involving that losing that bit of "driving involvement" from the stick wouldn't matter so much. It'd still be information overload if you had flappy paddles. Would just be a lot quicker.
for this reason. Though a DCT in manual mode would be adequate. Yeah more gears doesn't cure dim witted transmission programming. GF's Tiguan is a PRO at shifting at the wrong times. But they're getting better overall. I have no issues at all with standard shift programming in the Mazda transmissions for example.4zilch wrote: ↑Wed Oct 18, 2017 9:07 amCounter argument to "driver involvement" - some shift schedules are utter garbage and slow to react to driving situations. IE driving in NYC, I don't need to be in 8th gear w/ the TC clutch engaged at 25 mph. I need be able to accelerate quickly depending on traffic conditions. Instead I stomp the accelerator pedal, wait, tc clutch disengages, wait some more, downshift to 7th, wait - that's not the right gear either, drop to 5th or 4th and finally accelerate as intended.Johnny_P wrote: ↑Wed Oct 18, 2017 8:48 am The ONLY reason to buy manuel anymore is for "driving involvement."
That's it. The automatics are faster, more economical, have better resale in most cases, and are a no-cost option on many cars anymore. Gone are the days when the 5-speed manual was the pick in the small car world where the other option was a 4 or 3 speed auto that would slow the car down by about 1.5-2 seconds 0-60 and get worse fuel economy and cost an extra $1k on top of it all.
I even think my STI would be better with a dual clutch. It would be a hell of a lot faster if it didn't lose turbo pressure between shifts, and the rest of the car is so involving that losing that bit of "driving involvement" from the stick wouldn't matter so much. It'd still be information overload if you had flappy paddles. Would just be a lot quicker.
I still prefer a
For me it's all on a car by car basis and that car's auto versus that car's manual. A good DCT is going to be better than a manual in just about every situation from a performance perspective, but it may or may not be more enjoyable to use on a daily basis.Johnny_P wrote: ↑Wed Oct 18, 2017 8:48 am The ONLY reason to buy manuel anymore is for "driving involvement."
That's it. The automatics are faster, more economical, have better resale in most cases, and are a no-cost option on many cars anymore. Gone are the days when the 5-speed manual was the pick in the small car world where the other option was a 4 or 3 speed auto that would slow the car down by about 1.5-2 seconds 0-60 and get worse fuel economy and cost an extra $1k on top of it all.
I even think my STI would be better with a dual clutch. It would be a hell of a lot faster if it didn't lose turbo pressure between shifts, and the rest of the car is so involving that losing that bit of "driving involvement" from the stick wouldn't matter so much. It'd still be information overload if you had flappy paddles. Would just be a lot quicker.
non apples to apples comparison 
Big Brain Bradley wrote: ↑Wed Oct 18, 2017 10:52 am https://neworleans.craigslist.org/cto/d ... 02308.html
Black 1992 toyota mr2 for sale.
Manual transmission
JDM 3sge Beams engine with 30,000 miles (178 or 197 hp depending on which one) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toyota_S_engine#3S-GE
Many, many, curios dangs. such lack of funds doe.
Such harness routing.Big Brain Bradley wrote: ↑Wed Oct 18, 2017 10:52 am https://neworleans.craigslist.org/cto/d ... 02308.html
Black 1992 toyota mr2 for sale.
Manual transmission
JDM 3sge Beams engine with 30,000 miles (178 or 197 hp depending on which one) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toyota_S_engine#3S-GE
Many, many, curios dangs. such lack of funds doe.
coogles wrote: ↑Wed Oct 18, 2017 9:40 amFor me it's all on a car by car basis and that car's auto versus that car's manual. A good DCT is going to be better than a manual in just about every situation from a performance perspective, but it may or may not be more enjoyable to use on a daily basis.Johnny_P wrote: ↑Wed Oct 18, 2017 8:48 am The ONLY reason to buy manuel anymore is for "driving involvement."
That's it. The automatics are faster, more economical, have better resale in most cases, and are a no-cost option on many cars anymore. Gone are the days when the 5-speed manual was the pick in the small car world where the other option was a 4 or 3 speed auto that would slow the car down by about 1.5-2 seconds 0-60 and get worse fuel economy and cost an extra $1k on top of it all.
I even think my STI would be better with a dual clutch. It would be a hell of a lot faster if it didn't lose turbo pressure between shifts, and the rest of the car is so involving that losing that bit of "driving involvement" from the stick wouldn't matter so much. It'd still be information overload if you had flappy paddles. Would just be a lot quicker.
In a BMW? Yeah, either the 8 speed auto or the DCT is probably the better choice. New BMWs are so isolating already that dropping in a manual just seems out of place. GTIs are a tossup, IMO. The shift feel isn't great, but that's easily fixed with a DG or APR shifter. The DSG is slow to respond in manual mode and shifts too early with stock programming, lugging the engine around all the time. Without some aftermarket tuning the DSG just doesn't fit the character of the car, IMO, even though many more are sold with DSGs anymore. The Golf R is better with the DSG, though. It makes using the extra power much easier, prevents bogging on a launch, and you can rip through the gears much faster in the DSG car.
Max's 370z is a good example too. That 7 speed auto is pretty unloved, and for many buyers looking at those the manual car is the better choice. Might be equal in just a straight line speed or even on a track, but as far as how the car feels and responds to input it sounds like that 7 speed wasn't an equal of the newer auto gearboxes.
That is why I did the Uni Stage 1 TCU, and it honestly should've come that way from the factory, it still kinda lugs, but sport mode doesn't ALWAYS shift to redline when you drive the car normally. When I test drove the mk7 with DSG right before getting it, I thought "this is it". It can get boring sometimes, but in some situations (especially in this shit hole I call home) there are times I'm glad I don't have manual. This is coming from a grandson who still drives manual in the city that has worse traffic than NY and known as 3rd worst city traffic in Europe.
a few first gen immigrant on DFD, resident turk, and ex nazi egg lover now driving a middle class mom mobile. 
machine, guy is just a bit to proud of the car IMHO Totally true. I actually think autos are better at the "oh shit I need to accelerate RIGHT NOW" scenario than manuals, because 9/10 times you aren't in the right gear anyway, and any automatic can downshift and apply power faster than a manual driver can. Even the dim witted autos are faster than I am at this type of acceleration.max225 wrote: ↑Wed Oct 18, 2017 10:50 am The 370 auto was faster in every situation over the manual.
Programming is not an issue because paddles. Don’t like the programming shift yourself, way faster than you can ever do yourself with a 3rd pedal.
It’s like you guys are complaining mashing the throttle on an auto vs deliberately knowing the situation in a manual and preselecting the gear and doing the same.
The problem is dimwitted autos put you in top gear ASAP when aJohnny_P wrote: ↑Wed Oct 18, 2017 2:15 pmTotally true. I actually think autos are better at the "oh shit I need to accelerate RIGHT NOW" scenario than manuals, because 9/10 times you aren't in the right gear anyway, and any automatic can downshift and apply power faster than a manual driver can. Even the dim witted autos are faster than I am at this type of acceleration.max225 wrote: ↑Wed Oct 18, 2017 10:50 am The 370 auto was faster in every situation over the manual.
Programming is not an issue because paddles. Don’t like the programming shift yourself, way faster than you can ever do yourself with a 3rd pedal.
It’s like you guys are complaining mashing the throttle on an auto vs deliberately knowing the situation in a manual and preselecting the gear and doing the same.
driver wouldn't have it there to begin with. Maybe, but most cars with even a sense of sport allow you to shift manually. The Z for example has a manual mode that doesn't shift until you paddle period.4zilch wrote: ↑Wed Oct 18, 2017 2:30 pmThe problem is dimwitted autos put you in top gear ASAP when aJohnny_P wrote: ↑Wed Oct 18, 2017 2:15 pm
Totally true. I actually think autos are better at the "oh shit I need to accelerate RIGHT NOW" scenario than manuals, because 9/10 times you aren't in the right gear anyway, and any automatic can downshift and apply power faster than a manual driver can. Even the dim witted autos are faster than I am at this type of acceleration.
Yeah I was going to buy a 91 BRG SE loaded (ABS, PS, AC) with hard top and in better shape with fewer farts than that one for $4500 before someone else bought it out from under me. The NA market is weird.Big Brain Bradley wrote: ↑Wed Oct 18, 2017 1:51 pm https://batonrouge.craigslist.org/cto/6342479358.html
1990 miata, red, hard top, 165k, 3800.
I really like this as a potential
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