Car Talk 2: Un-American Motor Company.

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dtraill27
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Looking at KBB values for the Taco are lower than I would have expected
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55 MPH winds this afternoon. My ride home gonna be like:

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Johnny_P wrote: Fri Mar 02, 2018 12:50 pm 55 MPH winds this afternoon. My ride home gonna be like:

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NO way brah. The wing is going to keep you planted.... or maybe... actually cause you to take off, if it wasn't designed for downforce.

Which brings me to the actual question... What purpose does the STI wing serve? Does it actually generate any downforce?
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dtraill27 wrote: Fri Mar 02, 2018 12:16 pm Looking at KBB values for the Taco are lower than I would have expected
102% of what you paid vs 105%?
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[user not found] wrote: Fri Mar 02, 2018 10:39 am https://jalopnik.com/big-truck-sales-ar ... 1823456939

Trukcoin dips, called it.
They are at the end of the cycle, as Detroit mentioned. Also Feb has been fine, they are immensely profitable. I read an article that some of the high line GMC sierras are generating upwards of 50k gross profit per unit... :shock: Which frankly isn't surprising.

The market will be at high 16s low low 17s, so there will be a low single digit contraction.

The single biggest driver is interest rates, which will creep up another 1-1.5 pts in the next 12-18 months. We all know that's where the poors are getting pinched. Then again they have no business owning a new car period.
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max225 wrote: Fri Mar 02, 2018 12:53 pm
Johnny_P wrote: Fri Mar 02, 2018 12:50 pm 55 MPH winds this afternoon. My ride home gonna be like:

Image
NO way brah. The wing is going to keep you planted.... or maybe... actually cause you to take off, if it wasn't designed for downforce.

Which brings me to the actual question... What purpose does the STI wing serve? Does it actually generate any downforce?
It provides a downward force but IIRC the rear end still has lift at high speeds like any other car. Wing reduces it. IIRC it's like 100 lbs at 140 MPH. So zero use around town and on the US highways.

It also makes a good ramen noodle bar.

And provides some nice lolz when you look in the rear view mirror.
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https://www.carmax.com/car/15426199

Here is a 28k when new taco for 65% of msrp 11 years later. Once that dips from 20k to 5k where it belongs then you guys can scream. For now we're still in an incredibly odd time when owning new cars is dirt cheap compared to where it should be.
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max225 wrote: Fri Mar 02, 2018 1:10 pm https://www.carmax.com/car/15426199

Here is a 28k when new taco for 65% of msrp 11 years later. Once that dips from 20k to 5k where it belongs then you guys can scream. For now we're still in an incredibly odd time when owning new cars is dirt cheap compared to where it should be.
I want a Taco :sad:

Maybe I'll just go buy one in a year. Honestly that or 4Runner are high up on the want list. I think I'm ready to be out of the car enthusiast envelope.
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Johnny_P wrote: Fri Mar 02, 2018 1:08 pm
max225 wrote: Fri Mar 02, 2018 12:53 pm

NO way brah. The wing is going to keep you planted.... or maybe... actually cause you to take off, if it wasn't designed for downforce.

Which brings me to the actual question... What purpose does the STI wing serve? Does it actually generate any downforce?
It provides a downward force but IIRC the rear end still has lift at high speeds like any other car. Wing reduces it. IIRC it's like 100 lbs at 140 MPH. So zero use around town and on the US highways.

It also makes a good ramen noodle bar.

And provides some nice lolz when you look in the rear view mirror.
Is that documented anywhere? I am curious to read up about it.
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Johnny_P wrote: Fri Mar 02, 2018 1:12 pm
max225 wrote: Fri Mar 02, 2018 1:10 pm https://www.carmax.com/car/15426199

Here is a 28k when new taco for 65% of msrp 11 years later. Once that dips from 20k to 5k where it belongs then you guys can scream. For now we're still in an incredibly odd time when owning new cars is dirt cheap compared to where it should be.
I want a Taco :sad:

Maybe I'll just go buy one in a year. Honestly that or 4Runner are high up on the want list. I think I'm ready to be out of the car enthusiast envelope.
Shut up and enjoy the rally car. You will hate the loose steering and boring shitty ride, shitty brakes, shitty acceleration, shitty handling, shitty mpg. Soon enough.
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max225 wrote: Fri Mar 02, 2018 1:13 pm
Johnny_P wrote: Fri Mar 02, 2018 1:12 pm

I want a Taco :sad:

Maybe I'll just go buy one in a year. Honestly that or 4Runner are high up on the want list. I think I'm ready to be out of the car enthusiast envelope.
Shut up and enjoy the rally car. You will hate the loose steering and boring shitty ride, shitty brakes, shitty acceleration, shitty handling, shitty mpg. Soon enough.
I loved my F150.
Hated my moms Expedition.
Hated my work Ranger.
Hate my work Exploder.
Loved my work F150.

I dunno.
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Johnny_P wrote: Fri Mar 02, 2018 1:15 pm
max225 wrote: Fri Mar 02, 2018 1:13 pm

Shut up and enjoy the rally car. You will hate the loose steering and boring shitty ride, shitty brakes, shitty acceleration, shitty handling, shitty mpg. Soon enough.
I loved my F150.
Hated my moms Expedition.
Hated my work Ranger.
Hate my work Exploder.
Loved my work F150.

I dunno.
I dunno either, all those vehicles you mentioned are incredibly similar yet you love some and hate others.

:iono:
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max225 wrote: Fri Mar 02, 2018 1:12 pm
Johnny_P wrote: Fri Mar 02, 2018 1:08 pm
It provides a downward force but IIRC the rear end still has lift at high speeds like any other car. Wing reduces it. IIRC it's like 100 lbs at 140 MPH. So zero use around town and on the US highways.

It also makes a good ramen noodle bar.

And provides some nice lolz when you look in the rear view mirror.
Is that documented anywhere? I am curious to read up about it.
All the links are broken. Mitsubishi used to have a good analysis of the evo vs STI in aerodynamics but that's borked too.

http://www.sneed4speed.com/subaru-wrx-s ... nnel-data/

This speed shop did wind tunnel testing at 100 MPH for their wings. Claim at 100 the STI wing produces maybe 40 lbs downforce more than a wingless trunk. Obviously as speed increases the downforce increases exponentially since the force equation is calculated by the square of velocity.

https://www.grc.nasa.gov/www/k-12/airplane/lifteq.html
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[user not found] wrote: Fri Mar 02, 2018 1:31 pm
max225 wrote: Fri Mar 02, 2018 1:18 pm

I dunno either, all those vehicles you mentioned are incredibly similar yet you love some and hate others.

:iono:
I think it speaks more to Ford's epic lack of quality control.
American cars in the 90s and 00s were certainly all over the board. GM seems to have pulled it together the most, with almost every model being very reliable. Ford is still has quite a few bad apples.

WheraSS FCA just makes the same car with the same engine across 100 different platforms.
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Johnny_P wrote: Fri Mar 02, 2018 1:35 pm
max225 wrote: Fri Mar 02, 2018 1:12 pm

Is that documented anywhere? I am curious to read up about it.
All the links are broken. Mitsubishi used to have a good analysis of the evo vs STI in aerodynamics but that's borked too.

http://www.sneed4speed.com/subaru-wrx-s ... nnel-data/

This speed shop did wind tunnel testing at 100 MPH for their wings. Claim at 100 the STI wing produces maybe 40 lbs downforce more than a wingless trunk. Obviously as speed increases the downforce increases exponentially since the force equation is calculated by the square of velocity.

https://www.grc.nasa.gov/www/k-12/airplane/lifteq.html
I did some digging on the subaru forums but it looked like asking people if a K04 was the way to go on the gti forums. All kinds of :rage: and fake :math: everywhere.

It seems that it may provide 60-100lbs at 100-150 but even those figures were all over the place. Some claiming their own "windtunnel" testing and others claiming "subaru" official numbers.

It seems like it is mostly for looks den. At least it is painted... and not like the C63 or slowmaro ZL1 ones.

Dat pep boi look
Image
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max225 wrote: Fri Mar 02, 2018 1:18 pm
Johnny_P wrote: Fri Mar 02, 2018 1:15 pm
I loved my F150.
Hated my moms Expedition.
Hated my work Ranger.
Hate my work Exploder.
Loved my work F150.

I dunno.
I dunno either, all those vehicles you mentioned are incredibly similar yet you love some and hate others.

:iono:
Should have clarified years.

1999 F150 (mine) - Loved it
2000 Expedition (mom's) - Hated it. Listed in turns harder than a whaling vessel, extremely light steering, horrible brakes, same 220 HP as the F150 but in a much heavier package because rear seats and more metal. Just horrible.
1998 Ranger (work) - Hated it. Piece of shit tuna can, 4 cyl was terribad
2004 Ranger extended cab (mine) - Meh? Cramped inside, jerky 5-speed auto, decent V6 power I guess, decent handling for what it is
2005 Exploder (work) - Hate it. Harsh ride, wallowy handling, no balls at highway speed, harsh shifting 5AT, wacky throttle, truly terrible braking, there is nothing to like about this vehicle.
2005 F150 (work) - Liked it. V6 had no balls at speed, lazy throttle, confident 4AT, decent handling, decent ride, good space inside, good ride and comfort.
2015 F150 (work) - Liked it. Fahv-Oh is surprisingly fast, 6AT doesn't hunt for gears, quiet, good ride, comfy seats, gigantic, strong brakes.
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max225 wrote: Fri Mar 02, 2018 1:41 pm
Johnny_P wrote: Fri Mar 02, 2018 1:35 pm

All the links are broken. Mitsubishi used to have a good analysis of the evo vs STI in aerodynamics but that's borked too.

http://www.sneed4speed.com/subaru-wrx-s ... nnel-data/

This speed shop did wind tunnel testing at 100 MPH for their wings. Claim at 100 the STI wing produces maybe 40 lbs downforce more than a wingless trunk. Obviously as speed increases the downforce increases exponentially since the force equation is calculated by the square of velocity.

https://www.grc.nasa.gov/www/k-12/airplane/lifteq.html
I did some digging on the subaru forums but it looked like asking people if a K04 was the way to go on the gti forums. All kinds of :rage: and fake :math: everywhere.

It seems that it may provide 60-100lbs at 100-150 but even those figures were all over the place. Some claiming their own "windtunnel" testing and others claiming "subaru" official numbers.

It seems like it is mostly for looks den. At least it is painted... and not like the C63 or slowmaro ZL1 ones.

Dat pep boi look
Image
Yeah I mean Subi sells the STI without the wing too, so it can't do a shit ton of work at regular speeds. Flat out I bet it does provide noticeable stability to the car, but there ain't no autobahns around these parts and very few race tracks where you'd get this up to 140.
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Most cars get lift in the front not the back doe at speed. So I don't think it provides any stability for that. You need a rear wing for high speed cornering, and there ain't no place fo dat. Even most tracks don't let you corner at 140, since you likely don't have enough power to get to that speed :(
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max225 wrote: Fri Mar 02, 2018 12:54 pm
dtraill27 wrote: Fri Mar 02, 2018 12:16 pm Looking at KBB values for the Taco are lower than I would have expected
102% of what you paid vs 105%?
lol Last I looked it was around 27k trade in which would be about an 8k drop over MSRP. Granted they might be factoring my mileage in
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Johnny_P wrote: Fri Mar 02, 2018 1:12 pm
max225 wrote: Fri Mar 02, 2018 1:10 pm https://www.carmax.com/car/15426199

Here is a 28k when new taco for 65% of msrp 11 years later. Once that dips from 20k to 5k where it belongs then you guys can scream. For now we're still in an incredibly odd time when owning new cars is dirt cheap compared to where it should be.
I want a Taco :sad:

Maybe I'll just go buy one in a year. Honestly that or 4Runner are high up on the want list. I think I'm ready to be out of the car enthusiast envelope.

Maybe I'm the outlier but I'm not bored driving my truck. It's keeping off the placitis much better than anticipated.
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dtraill27 wrote: Fri Mar 02, 2018 2:03 pm
Johnny_P wrote: Fri Mar 02, 2018 1:12 pm

I want a Taco :sad:

Maybe I'll just go buy one in a year. Honestly that or 4Runner are high up on the want list. I think I'm ready to be out of the car enthusiast envelope.

Maybe I'm the outlier but I'm not bored driving my truck. It's keeping off the placitis much better than anticipated.
You have a 2017 Truk...

Talk to us in 2027 if you keep it for a decade it did well.
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max225 wrote: Thu Mar 01, 2018 5:38 pm Meanwhile Nissan also moved 312 370z and 35 GT-R's
Clearly the discerning buyers of course!!
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Davestr wrote: Fri Mar 02, 2018 2:30 pm
max225 wrote: Thu Mar 01, 2018 5:38 pm Meanwhile Nissan also moved 312 370z and 35 GT-R's
Clearly the discerning buyers of course!!
They are not FUN to drive obviously. Rogue + TRUK win. TRUK TRUK TRUK 2020
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max225 wrote: Fri Mar 02, 2018 2:35 pm
Davestr wrote: Fri Mar 02, 2018 2:30 pm

Clearly the discerning buyers of course!!
They are not FUN to drive obviously. Rogue + TRUK win. TRUK TRUK TRUK 2020
Yep difficulty parking and Mall Crawling full of Costco bags.......live that Fkn Truck dream wit all your Bro's !!! :) Be the star with YO liftkit at Trucks n Big Gulps LOL!!! Instead of Cars n Coffee!
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max225 wrote: Fri Mar 02, 2018 12:56 pm
[user not found] wrote: Fri Mar 02, 2018 10:39 am https://jalopnik.com/big-truck-sales-ar ... 1823456939

Trukcoin dips, called it.
They are at the end of the cycle, as Detroit mentioned. Also Feb has been fine, they are immensely profitable. I read an article that some of the high line GMC sierras are generating upwards of 50k gross profit per unit... :shock: Which frankly isn't surprising.

The market will be at high 16s low low 17s, so there will be a low single digit contraction.

The single biggest driver is interest rates, which will creep up another 1-1.5 pts in the next 12-18 months. We all know that's where the poors are getting pinched. Then again they have no business owning a new car period.
https://jalopnik.com/the-mahindra-roxor ... 1823460351 Who needs big!!?
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